Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

by Rick Brentlinger
(Florida, USA)

Recently Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries used the "Jesus said it ain't okay" argument from Matthew 19:3-7. Here is his email to me and my response.

"And Pharisees came up to Him and tested Him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that He Who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said,

‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”
(Matthew 19:3-7, ESV)

Ken writes: "Rick, Jesus has just defined marriage as a male (man) to a female (woman), and that's how the men to whom He was speaking understood it.

That's always been the orthodox Jewish position as well as that of the historic orthodox Christian Church. Even John Shelby Spong admitted homosexuality cannot be defended from Scripture.

You are welcome to your views, but as gently as I can say it, they really don't stand in the light of Scripture."
Click here to comment.

My Comments / Answer to
Ken's arguments

Hi Ken- I will address your factually inaccurate statements point by point.

1. "to come to a conclusion biblically that same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant."

That is your opinion based on your presuppositions about male-female Complementarity in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. Your opinion differs from what the texts actually say.

The Pharisees did not ask Jesus if "same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant."

Your interpretation substitutes your opinion - something Jesus didn't say - for what Jesus actually said. You are teaching your opinion - something Jesus did not say - as absolute truth. Obviously that is a false way of interpreting scripture.

2. "Jesus has just defined marriage as a male man to a female woman, and that's how the men to whom He was speaking understood it."

Your conclusion is not at all what Jesus actually said. The Jewish men to whom Jesus spoke did not define marriage as one man with one woman for life. When Jesus cites Genesis 2:24, by no means did Jesus or Jewish men understand Genesis 2:24 as prohibiting polygamy.

We know Complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not God's ironclad rule for all marriages because scripture makes exceptions for other situations like (1) polygamy and (2) divorce because of fornication. The fact that there are clearly stated Biblical exceptions to Complementarity proves your absolutist view is wrong.

It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

I believe scripture is clear that the Jewish men He addressed did not understand Him to be prohibiting polygamy. There is no way Jesus intended His words to convey the meaning you give them - that the only marriage acceptable to God is one man with one woman. Here's how we know that.

a. The first polygamous marriage is recorded in the Bible in Genesis 4:19, only 44 verses after the marriage passage in Genesis 2:24.

b. God and Moses, in Deuteronomy 21:15-17, made provision in the Law for polygamous marriages. This provision is never described by Jesus or any human author of scripture as accommodating human sinfulness, yet Jesus did describe divorce as sinful, Matt 5:32, 19:3-7, Mark 10:11-12.

Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel."

c. Many heroes of the faith practiced polygamy their entire adult lives yet scripture does not condemn them as living in sin. The nation of Israel sprang from Jacob's polygamous marriage with four women.

God is not an absolute Complementarian. In plainer words, God does not agree with your absolutist view and never states your absolutist view in the Bible.

God never encourages us to believe that the only marriage acceptable to Him is a one man with one woman marriage like Adam and Eve. Isn't it time you repented and lined up with God's view instead of championing your own opinion?

d. Jehovah Himself affirmed polygamy through His prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

At the point in time when Jehovah gave additional wives into David's bosom, David already had at least seven wives whose names are given: Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, 2 Samuel 3:2-5, Michal, v. 13.

Because God affirmed polygamy, that is clear testimony from God that He does not agree with your opinion that one man with one woman is the only marriage relationship God will bless.

e. The Holy Spirit affirms polygamy by inference in 2 Chronicles 24:2-3.

"And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters."

3. "That's always been the orthodox Jewish position..."

Your statement is factually inaccurate. Jews throughout the Old Testament and into the first century AD accepted and permitted polygamy. The orthodox Jewish position since 1450 BC when Moses wrote the Pentateuch has been that Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 do not teach absolute Complementarity - one man with one woman for life - as the only marriage paradigm God will bless.

Instead the orthodox Jewish position affirmed and blessed polygamy. Abraham, father of the faithful and friend of God, was a polygamist, Genesis 16:3-4, who also fathered many children by concubines, Genesis 25:6.

Jacob, whose sons formed the twelve tribes of Israel, was a polygamist. God Himself decided that Jacob's offspring from four wives would become the nation of Israel.

4. "...as well as that of the historic orthodox Christian Church."

On this point too, your conclusion is historically inaccurate. There is no scriptural evidence that any early Christian who heard Jesus speak in person or who read Matthew 19 understood Jesus to be outlawing polygamy when He spoke of "two becoming one."

Events in Matthew 19 occurred around AD 29. 1 Timothy was written around AD 62 so there is at least a 33 year gap between Jesus' statement on divorce and Paul's statements in 1 Timothy 3.

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife" -1 Tim 3:2

"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife" -1 Tim 3:12

If Jesus intended to teach absolute Complementarity, that the ONLY acceptable marriage is one man with one woman for life, and if His Jewish listeners and early Christians understood that to be His teaching, then why did the Holy Spirit and Paul feel it necessary to point out that bishops and deacons may only have one wife?

If Jewish and Christian orthodoxy already understood that, there is no reason for the Holy Spirit and Paul to mention that having more than one wife was a deal-breaker for a bishop or a deacon.

The fact is, some first century Jews and Christians practiced polygamy because polygamy was never forbidden in scripture for anyone except bishops and deacons.

5. "Even John Shelby Spong admitted homosexuality cannot be defended from Scripture."

That is such as weak argument. Spong is a heretic of the first order. He rejects the deity of Christ, the necessity of the new birth, justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Spong also rejects the inspiration and authority of scripture. His testimony about what scripture does or does not teach carries no weight.

6. "You are welcome to your views, but as gently as I can say it, they really don't stand in the light of Scripture."

That is such a condescending statement. You cannot produce any verse of scripture which in context addresses same sex marriage yet you've concluded based on scripture taken out of context, that same sex marriage is never permissible.

What you've done is re-purpose a passage in which Jesus rebukes heterosexual Jewish men for their heterosexual divorce practices as if Jesus was really making a negative statement about gay marriage.

In your zeal to champion your opinion, you've stepped into the sandals of the scribes and Pharisees, "making the word of God of none effect by your (anti-gay) tradition." Mark 7:13

Ken Silva answered what I wrote above.

Here is my response to his answer
plus a link to his answer.

Comments for Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

Click here to add your own comments

May 12, 2010
nice try
by: lisa miller

it seems you too can take scripture and make it what you wish to say..the argument that something has 'no scriptural evidence' is weak in itself, as a defense for anyone's agenda. nice try, though.
i do enjoy reading you banter! have a great day!

May 13, 2010
just a thought
by: james c burgess

As I read some of the comments I get saddened by the level of pure hatred from ones that proclaim to be christians and write posts with their little "zings" and stuff.

I just don't get it. I'm grateful to be an open, out, christian gay man and fortunately pretty thick skinned against the "haters" yet I know so many that have been really hurt by many in the body of Christ. Just a thought after reading the post before me.

May 13, 2010
The blind misleading the blind
by: Kevin Schupp


As always you've done a fine job of taking the words of scripture and applying true objective standards. As a man who spent many years studing God's word in bible college, I appreciate your non-biased study. Our evangelical, fundamentalist christian church has lapsed into biblical illiteracy. I find so many christians can't even quote a half dozen verses in defense of their own faith.

Pastors have now taken on a role much like priests of the Catholic faith. They dispense biblical truth to the flock who receive it with unquestioning faith. The day of personal responsability for our faith seems to have passed.

Untruth and biblical error, while often unintentional, flow from pulpits with nothing to counter or question its validity. Views on homosexuality are seeded in the minds of the believers peppered with the bigotry and bias of the standard christian view and never objectively dissected.

Much like the years of racial discrimination in our churches. Few questioned the misuse of bad theology and scripture pulled out of context to condone segregation in our churches. It took a minister like Martin Luther King to challenge the leadership of the church to bring about honest study and eventually THE TRUTH of our error.

Keep exposing the truth Rick. I believe some are listening. Scripture says,"Come let us reason together, thus says the Lord." I think that is all we are asking for gay christians.

Recently I've gone back to the Word to look a second time with objective eyes and an open mind as to some of the things I was taught. More than a few scriptures have revealed the inaccurate teachings of my college years. I surely appreciate the foundations of my faith I learned in those years. However I've also realized that some scriptures were taken out of context, culture of the time and original language were often ignored to conclude preconceived views. The commonly held view was preferred over the biblical truth.

I think that's what we call RELIGION. Let us now shed the traditions of man and seek the truth of The Living Word of God. The world needs the foundations of faith not the useless self-righteousness of Religion. Only the Truth will set us free.

May 13, 2010
Adventures in missing the point
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Lisa-

Unfortunately you're not alone among anti-gay Christians in missing the point. The Pharisees did NOT ask Jesus if marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is not now and never was the topic under discussion.

Yet anti-gay Christians insist on reading into the text what Jesus did not say, that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

What folly to read into Jesus' citations of Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 that Jesus intended His Jewish hearers to understand that homosexual marriage is always wrong.

Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. I think you'll have difficulty slipping that one past God at the judgment seat of Christ.

May 19, 2010
by: Anonymous

You state 5% of the population are gay. Apparently you don't have the balls to continue the ongoing lie that it is 10%.

I have read 2-3%.

Gay is a choice.

Choose Straight!

May 19, 2010
I feel sorry for you
by: Rick Brentlinger

It makes me sad you are so angry at gay and lesbian Christians. God the Holy Spirit isn't the source of your anger.

So what is the source of your anger?

Wouldn't the cause of God and truth be better served by loving your gay brothers and lesbian sisters?

Remember that our Lord Jesus Christ AND the Apostle Paul told us that "love" for God and neighbor sums up the law and fulfills the law, Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10.

By the way, the statistics are all over the board concerning the percentage of GLBTs in the human population. I believe 5% is conservative - its probably closer to 10% but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

May God bless as you walk the path of His purpose for your life.

May 20, 2010
Always an Angry Response

Re: 5% of population is gay vs 10%

I believe you're correct Rick in being conservative with the 5% figure. However I think those of us in the gay population would say it is our experience that there are many more gay men and women than it would appear.

I've been amazed at the number of men who are living as heterosexuals and in reality are closeted homosexuals. The anger displayed in the things written by this person who can't even identify themselves indicates several things to me.

First, Anger is not a fruit of the Spirit. "If we have not love one for another,than the love of God is not in us." This may just be another religious person not a child of God.

Second, Homosexuality is not a choice. Most of the gay men and women I know realized at a young age they were different long before they even understood sex. The gay life is a hard one. I know of no one who would choose to be gay.

Third, "Choose Straight?" I would ask this person if they could tell me the moment, hour, day, month or year that they made the choice to be straight.

In conclusion I say to them: Your frustration that the gay population is larger than you would like to admit and your obvious anger at the gay population leads me to think there is a deep fear buried in you. It has been my personal experience and also a truth of scripture that "the truth will set you free."

Aug 16, 2010
Follow the scriptures
by: Faith

Many Christians will quote "The truth will set you free" but forget that is the preceding scripture that tells us to follow the teachings of Christ and the following scriptures that show the consequences (effects)of not doing so, John 8:31-38.

We as Christians are to admit that we are not doing so when the Word of God shows us that what we are following is not his teaching. We as Christians can be deceived into believing things that are not true and therefor live in bondage of sin.

We are forgiven past, present and future. If we ask God to search our heart to reveal any wrong way in us, He will reveal it and we then have the opportunity to be set free of the bondage of sin through repentance.

The problem is that the Homosexual agenda is to seek equality, but are looking wrong direction to achieve this. The argument is with Christ, not with fellow Christians. So I suggest the searching begin in the hearts of individuals and trust God to come up with the answer.

Then you will know if you are really hearing from God or not. Watch for the outcome. God will not go against his word.

Aug 17, 2010
Thanks Faith, for your comments
by: Rick Brentlinger

While I appreciate your comments, it gets discouraging after a while that so many Christians who lecture us on "following God's teaching" and tell us we are "going in the wrong direction" refuse to read the Bible in context.

Many gay Christians are at the point where they ridicule and/or ignore Christians like you because of your arrogance.

You have never studied the alleged anti-gay verses. You are incapable of discussing these verses intelligently. You cited no scripture and offered no arguments to support your opinion. You have not a clue about the context of the verses you believe forbid homosexuality.

Yet you deign to lecture us about following and obeying what God says. How I wish you would heed your own advice and "study to shew yourself approved unto God," 2 Timothy 2:15.

Aug 17, 2010
"TRUTH" is truth
by: Kevin

Yes Faith, I do know what precedes those words, "the truth will set you free." I have read studied and dissected them in their original language for 6 and a half years in seminary. As to following after my Lord and serving him, I've traveled the world in ministry, speaking to thousands of the gospel of Christ.

I've been blessed to lead hundreds to saving knowledge of our Savior. It makes me sad when christians who have decided to set themselves up as the judges of righteousness assume that because I'm gay, I am also ignorant of God's Word. They choose to read the scriptures in it weakest form, ENGLISH and come to wrong conclusions,based on "how it reads."

How the Bible reads in English is often misunderstood and obscured by western culture. In it's original language the Word becomes clear and vibrant. Like the difference between watching T.V. on a 19" black and white set as compared to a 60" HD LCD flatscreen TV.

Faith, before you speak of what you think you know, be sure. To speak in ignorance of the Word of truth brings consequences. Sadly many Christians condemn others based on what someone else said the Word of God says.

"BAD THEOLOGY" The application of Truth is that all God's Truth sets us free. The Scripture says, "rightly dividing the word" (2 Timothy 2:15). That phrase in Greek means to dissect as we would autopsy a body. That is how we are to study God's Word. Not to sit and and be told by a spiritual leader what the Word means and says. That's lazy theology.

Dear sister in the faith, please don't take this a a personal attack for it is not intended to be that! The fact is that as a gay Christian I've had to defend my faith and right to even be counted a brother in the faith, only because I'm gay. I've had to scripturally defend all I say and even my status as a child of God before my brothers and sisters in Christ.

For that reason it is important for me to study God's Word constantly. I speak from my heart when I say, "we must handle God's Word with understanding and integrity so as to teach the TRUTH and see it set people free." There is life everlasting in God's truth!

Sep 29, 2010
homosexuality is a sin.
by: Anonymous

One verse. Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; this is detestable." (NIV) Romans 1:27 also speaks of this perversion. Need i say more.

Sep 29, 2010
Wow, who knew?
by: Rick Brentlinger

Thanks anonymous for your "courage" and for your "deep intellectual insight" in posting those verses. Wow, who knew THOSE were in the Bible?

Do you know the context of those verses?

Have you bothered to read and study the context?

Do you really believe they mean what you think they mean?

I know you're not interested in truth but on the off-chance that you may eventually become interested, check out our NavBar under What The Bible Says.

Click on Lev 18:22 & 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

Need I say more?

Oct 15, 2010
by: A Christian

Hey, my "opinion" doesn't count...nor yours. God's Word is the sole authority. S0 read Romans 1:26-27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Underline perversion.

Oct 15, 2010
To A Christian
by: Rick Brentlinger

I understand why you didn't deal with anything I wrote. I know how difficult it is for some Christians to deal with truth.

I have page after page on this website explaining the meaning of Romans 1:26-27 - click the NavBar button for Romans if you're interested in truth.

Many thanks for stopping by.

Oct 18, 2010
I wish I could persuade you...
by: Kyle

Re: Wow, who knew?

My heart breaks for you Rick. I wish you could see the Bible for what it truly is. It is the living truth of God. It does not mean what we want it to mean, our opinions don't matter. I am afraid you have taken the Bible sorely out of context, because I am not sure how you take Leviticus 18:22 out of context. It is very clear as to what it means. I have studied these verses and know their context. The Lord is telling us (in a very straight forward manner) what we are not to do sexually. That's it. The end. There is not much more to say on this chapter.

I am confused as to how you get anything else out of the chapter. I read your "What the Bible Says" on the subject and I disagree! You are just making the Bible say whatever you want. It is clear that He is not just talking about shrine prostitution. I still don't really understand how you came to that conclusion. Where did you find your information? You say "Many Christians assume the Bible says things it never says." but that sir, is exactly what you are doing. What if you are wrong?

The last thing I want to say, is that, even though I disagree with homosexuality and things like it, I do not hate the people. The Lord commands me as a Christian to love people. Therefore, I chose to love the people and hate the sin. That is completely Biblical. God hates sin, but He loves me, and I am a sinner. AWESOME!

Oct 28, 2010
You need to study your Bible
by: Rick Brentlinger


It is obvious you have not studied Lev 18:22 and 20:13. If you had bothered to study those chapters you would have noticed the following.

1. They are addressed to the children of Israel - Lev 18:2, 19:2, 20:2.

2. The context is worshiping false gods, Lev 18:3, 21, 20:2, 3, 4, 5, 23.

Kyle wrote: I read your "What the Bible Says" on the subject and I disagree! You are just making the Bible say whatever you want. It is clear that He is not just talking about shrine prostitution.

Its interesting that you disagree but you present zero evidence to support your disagreement.

Dr. Robert Gagnon, the leading anti-gay scholar, speaker and writer, devotes more than ten pages of his book (pages 100 to 110) to defending his belief that Lev 18:22 was written in the context of shrine prostitution.

I do not doubt that the circles out of which Lev 18:22 was produced had in view homosexual cult prostitution, at least partly. Homosexual cult prostitution appears to have been the primary form in which homosexual intercourse was practiced in Israel. -Dr. Robert Gagnon, The Bible and Homosexual Practice, p. 130

I hope you will obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and not assume that your cursory reading of Lev 18:22 counts as study.

Your comment about the Bible, "it does not mean what we want it to mean speaks strongly against your confused opinion on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22.

Nov 01, 2010
Principle of partnership
by: Anonymous

In 1 Corinthians 7:2 doesnt say anything about what you wrote,it states Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

where did you get anything about orientation
on from?

people always forget what Jesus said in Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
nothing on same sex or eunuchs.

I dont think its about hate as alot of people think,its living right or trying to,if youre trying to live like Christ, which is a mountain, then you have to try to be as sinful as possible,IF I was a gay person and wanted to live like that I guess I would too be trying to justify it,just as I would any sinful lifestyle,but I already know Ill get something on this to disagree. but in the end,ill say youll have to live your life as you see fit because we'll never agree,God will judge in the end.

Dec 03, 2010
It helps to read before commenting
by: RIck Brentlinger

Good night nurse Anonymous! Couldn't you trouble yourself to at least read the post and comments before commenting?

You quote Matthew 19 as if its new information and ignore the fact that the topic in the post is Ken's false interpretation of Matthew 19, which I quoted at the top of this page.

FYI, a principle is something we derive from scripture based on what scripture says.

Please obey the words in the photo at the top of this page. Many thanks!

Dec 05, 2010
by: Kyle

I feel that we will get nowhere in this conversation. I have other things to say but feel that I am going to just hit a brick wall with you. I am not going to argue with a man who is not willing to listen to the thoughts of others. I have taken what you said and learned from them. Not in the way you would like, but learned from them none the less. I thank you for that.

I think it is interesting that you answered all of my questions and comments (whether I agree with them or not, you tried), except one. And that is, if you are wrong?

Mar 06, 2011
God loves gay people
by: Shefali

I am a Christian, and I don't hate gay people. In fact, for the longest time, I believed that God thinks gay sex is sin because that is what pastors told me, and, in reading the Bible, that is how I understood key passages. However, even then, I would tell gay friends - I may not like your lifestyle, but I love you and God loves you.

I have invited gay friends who are not Christian to church functions because I do believe God loves them and if anyone had been rude to them because of their being gay I would have been very upset. Christ said to love our neighbors, and that includes gay neighbors.

I have known gay friends who love Jesus and who live in celibacy because that is what they feel God has called them to do. I know others who choose monogamy. I personally think that the type of "gay lifestyle" promoted by Hollywood and a sinful society of multiple bath-house encounters per year, etc., is wrong and sinful. However, what about a gay monogamous relationship?

I have concluded and decided that since Jesus says to look at the beam in my own eye and not the mote in my brother's, I am not going to judge a gay person who chooses to stay in a monogamous relationship. If he or she is sincerely in a prayer-ful, loving relationship with God, then that is an issue between him or her and God. Similarly, if a gay friend chooses celibacy - that is between him or her and God. Some gay people may CHOOSE to try to become straight - if that is their choice, I respect that too.

All that being said, I cannot in good conscience agree with gay marriage. I will pray about this some more. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right. God knows the truth and I will ask for His guidance. Don't get me wrong - I believe gay people love just like straight people do, they have the same deep emotions, etc. But I don't necessarily find your arguments for gay marriage convincing, and there are semantics and so on that incline me against it. However, right now I'd be fine with some kind of civil union for gay people so that things like inheritance rights, etc., can be dealt with.

I do think you should be careful not to stereotype everyone who is against gay marriage as someone who hates gay people. A lot of us feel genuine love for gays as our neighbors but have reservations about gay marriage... and, who knows, perhaps this is something that, with more time and thought and prayer, we will come to agreement on.

I do think, BTW, that it is a good thing you have your site up because gay people do need to know that God loves them.

Mar 14, 2011
Marriage et al.
by: Rob

So far everything I have read on this site pertains to heterosexual lifestyles. Even your rebuttals point of pologymists and incest are Heterosexual. Please point out specifically where the Homosexual lifestyle is ok'd biblically. I am not asking because i ma being a smart aleck, I truly want to know.

On a side note I find it a bit ironic albiet also a bit stereotypical and insulting that my CAPTCHA for this post is FAERIE.

Mar 15, 2011
Did you miss Jonathan and David?
by: Rick Brentlinger

Keep reading Rob. I have lots of Bible based information about Jonathan and David and the gay centurion too.

As far as your assertion that everything on the website pertains to heterosexual lifestyles, the point of mentioning polygamy and incest is to present Biblical exceptions to the absolute Complementarity argument of our detractors. By providing clear Biblical exceptions, I have proven that complementarity is NOT absolute.

If complementarity is not absolute, as illustrated by Biblical examples of polygamous and incestuous marriage relationships, then their argument against gay marriage is debunked.

About the FAERIE Captcha, that may be nothing more than serendipity.

Mar 26, 2011
Sin is sin.
by: Anonymous

The Bible is clear that homosexual relationships are not right in God's sight. It is no different from the many other lifestyles or behaviors He tells us we are not to engage in. You can play with meanings and translations and contexts all day long but in the end you are merely trying to justify what you want the Bible to say when it clearly does not say it. I can admit I am a sinner. i know the things I do are wrong and I don't try to justify them. I understand that every church is full of all kinds of sinners who can't or wont even attempt to allow God to bring their life or lifestyle under conviction but to try to justify yourselves as not sinners is just as ridiculous.

Mar 26, 2011
Goofy and illogical
by: Rick Brentlinger

I love it! Anonymous is so absolutely sure that the Bible supports his beliefs, he doesn't have to cite any scriptures in context or make any arguments.

Instead of thoughtful presentation of his beliefs, he ridicules us for presenting scriptures in context, placing proper emphasis on the meaning of words.


Do you really think your lazy illogic will pass muster at the judgment seat of Christ?

My brother, I encourage you to obey 1 Peter 3:15.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Apr 16, 2011
What Amber thinks God says about homosexuality
by: Amber

Leviticus 20:13 says "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Clearly, God is saying here that homosexuality is a sin. He states in clear black-and-white that he does not support homosexual sex. So why would he support homosexual marriage? Marriage is suppose to unite two people, spiritually and sexually.

After all, in 1 Corinthians 7:2-5, Paul says:

"But in order to avoid sexual sins, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband. Husbands and wives should satisfy each others' sexual needs. A wife doesn't have authority over her own body, but her husband does. In the same way, a husband doesn't have authority over his own body, but his wife does. Don't withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so for a set time to devote yourselves to prayer. Then you should get back together so that Satan doesn't use your lack of self-control to tempt you."

So, clearly God intended a married couple to have sexual relations. So, if he says that homosexual sex is wrong, then why would he support homosexual marriage? Marriage and sex go hand in hand.

Apr 17, 2011
Homosexuality and gay marriage are not sinful
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Amber-

Thanks for stopping by. I'll allow your first comment but I don't allow anti-gay folks to post multiple long comments proclaiming their opinion that homosexuality and gay marriage are wrong. The Bible clearly does NOT say what you think it says.

I hope you'll take time to look at the NavBar under What The Bible Says, where you will notice that I deal extensively with all the clobber passages. I do believe it will be profitable for you to do more study.

Jun 27, 2011
Hearing what you want to hear
by: Anonymous

I think anybody can take something and make it to be what they want. I personally believe and will always believe that homosexuality is a sin. I just was wondering why I would say 80 percent of your reasoning for it to be ok was based upon polygamy.

Also I researched some info about Matthew 19:12.

"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Do you know what a eunuch is? The writers are claiming that they are gay people but this is not true at all. A eunuch is a male or female that is unable or chooses not to partake in sexual things. So some, mainly regarding men, are born unable to get aroused so they can't have sex. Then back in the day people were castrated so they couldn't perform sexually. And then finally, some people choose to not have sex or marry like the pope.

And finally if you read the views of complementarity, that is absolutely rediculous. How can you say that christian views are based upon Plato's views because of this guys views. I can tell you that 99 percent of christians don't believe that and probably have never even heard of it, including myself.

I will personally be praying for all of you because hell is a very bad place and I would hate for you to go there.

Jun 27, 2011
Biblical answers, in context
by: Rick Brentlinger

Polygamy is used as an analogy because if there are several Biblical exceptions to the Adam and Eve template (like polygamy and celibacy), then we know, based on what the Bible says, in context, that complementarity is not absolute.

If complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not absolute, then it is wrong and unbiblical to say an Adam and Eve type marriage is the only marriage God will truly bless.

I agree with you - you did a LITTLE research - so little that your conclusions are wrong. I hope you will continue to educate yourself by obeying 2 Timothy 2:15.

I believe you need to reread our material about Complementarity and Plato. There is a clear link between modern anti-gay teaching by Christians and what Plato the pagan Greek taught 400 years before the birth of Christ.

Jun 29, 2011
Lets think about this
by: Paul

Rev Rick- I have read and i know how you have disproved "all quotations" that attest to the "fact" that homosexuality is a sin and to put it better an abomination!

Maybe i will give you some quotations in the Quran "though i'm a christian" so you can reconsider what "all" your "spirit led" analyses of homosexuality is about! Read these(Quran 4:15-16,7:80-82,26:165-175,27:55-58,29:28-29)

And about Polygamy read: Acts 17:30- God winked his eyes and allowed certain things in the past because men were not in the state to receive the original purpose of everything

it is also true that Jesus accepts homosexuals as persons but not homosexuality as an act.

i know you've done a lot of research to prove your points but come to think of these!? have you ever seen two male or female "animals" mating? I pray that the same God you prayed to speaks to you again!

let me leave you with this last quotation and i believe you get out from being a victim!
1 cor 4:3-4

Jun 29, 2011
We always interpret scripture in context, 2 Tim 2:15
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Paul- Many Christians make it a hobby to take verses which are talking about shrine prostitution out of context and attempt to convince the unwary that the verses are really talking about homosexuality.

Those of us who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil, Hebrews 5:14, do not fall for that con-game.

Muhamed claimed to be possessed by demons. Nothing he is quoted as saying in the Quran is relevant to Christians and the topic of homosexuality.

Concerning polygamy, it will be helpful to read, What does the Bible say about polygamy and open relationships?

This page discusses polygamy in more depth.

You may also be interested in the New York Times Magazine article, Can animals be gay?

I leave you with 1 Cor 2:13-

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Jun 30, 2011
Please you didn't answer my simple question..
by: Paul

i asked if you've ever seen two male or female animals "MATING"... please i need your comment about that!

And with the polygamy. i quoted Acts 17:30 to inform you of how God overlooked many things in the times of old Testament!

Do you know that the church is the bride of God (Christ)..Have you ever considered why God always warned the israelites of committing "adultery" when ever they go after other gods?(Jer 3:8,7:9, Eze 23:37) the famous Exo 20:3..

Spiritually serving other gods apart from GOD alone is a polygamy adultery and it has the same principles in the physical marriage!

God always has the divine reasons for anything and the fact that he allowed men to go on with their swayed life doesn't mean he approves it!

can you show me a single quotation in the new testament that supports polygamy or homosexuality?

Of course you may try to quote and misinterpret one or two verses claiming it is for idol prostitution! but check these out!
1 cor 6:9...abusers of themselves!

Come to think of it, if even demon possed Mohamed could clearly state Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for this abominable homosexual act. what are you God possessed Rick saying!

i know am never in the position now to SAVE you because you've gone FAR! with justifying what is spiritually and physically wrong! but i pray that He who met zealous saul on the way will meet you on your sinful journey!....Amen

Jun 30, 2011
Well isn't that special!
by: Rick Brentlinger

Well, isn't that special! Are you really suggesting we should inform our reason based on your speculations about animal sexuality?

Yes, I know that the church is Christs bride. Are you aware that the bride of Christ contains men who are going to marry a man, Jesus Christ?

Your method of witnessing by insult is funny and a bit sad. I pray God you will learn to walk in the Spirit, Galatians 5:16, as you grow to Christian maturity.

Jul 06, 2011
Very clear!
by: Paul

Matthew 19:4-5 - Jesus clearly states that in the beginning God created male and female(wife) for the purpose of establishing marriage as between man and wife.

lets consider Gen 1:28. God commanded man to multiply because all arrangements for multiplying were made when he created man and woman!

i know you will bear with me that neither two male or two female couples can fulfill the principle of multiplying.

so what will that mean to God (JESUS "if only you believe in the Trinity")when one tries to disobey this simple principle by marrying the same sex?

of course these will be the possible conclusions to God.

1.God is unwise in asking man to multiply

2.God should have created the male to give birth!

but remember, "adoption of a child is not procreation or multiplication"

i keep praying for you Rev Rick..because am believing God He will use you "the same person" to save people from this abomination of homosexuality! Amen!

Jul 06, 2011
Answers to the, be fruitful and multiply, argument
by: Rick Brentlinger

Your prayers are much appreciated Paul, although praying for God to use me as a soul-winner and Bible teacher in the GLBT community would be more helpful.

Here are three Bible-based answers which address your "be fruitful and multiply" argument. Enjoy.

Does be fruitful and multiply cancel gay marriage?

Isn?t the Bible pretty clear that gay marriage is wrong?

Are gay relationships always outside God?s created order?

Jul 26, 2011
It's not always as simple as it may seem
by: kevin S.

As I read the many comments of those who express a anti gay view of The Bible I Continually observe them quoting the words of the text in its English form and saying QUOTE: It says what it says. It's clear, why can't you see that? My answer to that statement is, NO, it's not always as clear as you seem to think.

1. The books of the Bible were not originally written in English. The Old Testament was in Hebrew and Syriac (Aramaic) and the New Testament in Koine Greek.

2. The first translation of the entire Bible to be printed in English was the Coverdale Bible in 1535.

3. Translating one language into another is very difficult because of history, culture and idiomatic phrases. We use phrases in our society that would be difficult for foreigners to understand, like cool, dude, my crib, my ride.

4. The English translations spans hundreds of years and thousands of words.

5. We read culture into our meanings of words. In England, a FAG is a cigarette. In the U.S.A. some people would call me a fag (slang for a gay man).

All these factors and many more must be considered when translating and then interpreting the Bible. The impact of these factors on the translation can mean you get it right or you miss it completely. When Rick and others speak of context, content, culture and historic usages of words, this is what they are referring to.

Much of the Bible is as simple to understand as drinking milk but there are areas that are more difficult, like chewing tough meat. Sometimes an exhaustive study even in a easy area will shed new light in your heart and understanding. So, the next time you are quoting verses on a difficult subject, I suggest you go far beyond the words on the page and do some serious bible study.

Before you pass judgment and condemn a whole group of people (some brothers and sisters in Christ), you should check, double check and scrutinize your facts. 2 Tim. 2:15 STUDY(autopsy) the scriptures!!!!! You will be held accountable for your words. If you push someone away from a saving knowledge of Jesus, even as a believer, you have become an enemy of the cross.

We are called to preach that we are all sinners and need the Savior. We are called to preach the Gospel. Please brothers and sisters in Christ, let us put down the stones and REASON together! Healthy debate is good but hurtful and angry words distance and damage people.

Jul 31, 2011
by: Anonymous

I believe God wants his children to be happy. Believe in God and accept Jesus into your heart, THAT is what is most important. If murderers and rapists can be Christian, then I am positive homosexuals can be to. God does not want us to judge others.

I have not studied the Bible, so I can't and won't say what the Bible says...

...in the Bible, the message and hope that it gives is not being questioned. Just take into consideration that specific words may... may have been taken out of context.

Sep 27, 2011
to June 27 Anonymous and your Plato comment
by: amy

Anonymous - Your comment about Plato, that you never heard of such things, and how most christians you know have never heard of such things: Exactly!

Many other people have heard of such things, it influenced thinking and writing, and made its way to you. However you could know if you chose to and we are responsible for seeking and finding. You are not a child.

I won't even try and get my head wrapped around the whole Anonymous Comment thing but I can't ignore the fact that Anonymous Comments belong almost exclusively to those who are uninformed and extremely angry.

Sep 29, 2011
Repentance is not accepting Christ in sin but replacing sin with christ
by: Anonymous

i read the comments of a anonymous claiming if rapist and murderers can come to the saving knowledge of christ, so can homosexauls.....

this is 100% true...bcs christ loves sinners "actors" but hates sin "act"... but remember an arm robber will not continue in armed robbery after acceptng christ because the act itself is bad and that is why he did accept christ..

you dont accept christ to justify what is sinful but justify the sinner...and homosexuality is not an exclusion....the homosexual is accepted by christ but not homosexuality...

what do i mean No homosexual should be condemned in christ but the act of homosexaulity should...

lets consider the scenario of the woman caught in fornication....jesus replied in john 8:11" ...neither do i condemn thee(the actor)...SIN NO MORE "the act"./..

so you see the issue here is not about condemning homosexuals to saving power in christ..but the act and until Rick and his people accept that the act is sinful..then the saving grace of the Lord is made VAIN in their lives(2 cor 6:1)..and that is dangerous...

God loves us and he need us to manifest true repentance in christ by changing from our sins and mind you...homosexuality is not only a sin but an ABOMINATION!...

Sep 29, 2011
Clever way to dodge everything I wrote
by: Rick Brentlinger

Before anyone can accept your, homosexuality is sin argument, you must prove it using scriptures in context.

You didn't even attempt to do that because you know that no verse of scripture in context, says what you believe about homosexuality.

Your hate the sin, love the sinner argument is incredibly unloving. You cannot separate your heterosexuality from who you are as a person. If I claim to love you but hate your heterosexuality, you would agree that is quite stupid. It's impossible to love you as a person but hate who you are as a person.

In the same way, we cannot separate being born homosexual from who we are as people. When you claim to love us but hate who we are as people, you are really claiming to hate us.

Will you always condemn your gay brothers and lesbian sisters in such a thoughtless unloving unBiblical way?

Sep 29, 2011
love the sinner hate the sin
by: AMY

Just a comment to anonymous. As always, as far as I am concerned, if you are not willing to put your name one should reconsider their hearts purpose in writing.

A. Christians generally don't practice loving the sinner and hating the sin and I think you and I both know that. I believe it is possible, and good, however that would require you to spend a lot of time taking the log out of your own eye. But christians sure do love to throw that verse around a lot; as if saying it is the same as a heart transformation.

B. There is nothing about this website that indicates that people who follow Jesus and love Jesus would not be kind and loving to people, or would in any way want to keep them from that relationship with Jesus. That has nothing to do with the content of this site at all.

C. Please tell me, after becoming a christian, have you gone and sinned no more? Are you sin free? Is your heart completely out of debt?

Please, I really would like a heartfelt answer to that question. And to be frank, after making that comment, and throwing that out there, you should be prepared to answer that. Thanks!

Sep 29, 2011
by Kevin Schupp
Homophobes are not good theologians

by: Anonymous

Dear Anonymous, I will make this one point one more time for all you ANONYMOUS commenter; be a man or a woman and stop hiding your anti gay rhetoric behind the curtain of anonymity. What?s your name? If you believe what you say is true, than you should have the courage of your convictions to take credit for your beliefs. Otherwise how can the readers take you seriously or give you any credibility?

Your comments are so theologically flawed and off the wall, that to address each point would require a college course. So I will address only two of your statements.

POINT #1 - What is REPENTANCE? Koine Greek words: Meatanoeo or Metanoia - The meaning of the word: TO CHANGE YOUR MIND OR A CHANGE OF MIND. TO THINK DIFFERENTLY

It does not mean; REGRET, SORROW FOR SIN, CHANGING YOUR BEHAVIOR, GIVING UP SIN, TURNING FROM SIN etc. or any other of the misinterpretations of the Greek word preached in many so called evangelical, fundamentalist churches.

??manifest true repentance in Christ by changing from our sins??Is not theologically correct. If you are going to preach, do your homework.

POINT #2 - BAD THEOLOGY: Christ loves sinners "actors" but hates sin "act"... but remember an arm robber will not continue in armed robbery after accepting Christ because the act itself is bad and that is why he did accept Christ..

BIBLICALLY SOUND THEOLOGY: Romans 3:23 All have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good and sinneth not.

1. Christ died for sinners.
2. We all are sinners.
3. We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. (It is our nature to sin.)
4. Stopping our sinning will not make us perfect. Just good ole boy sinners.
5. We receive Christ?s payment for sin to give us (positional) perfection which is required to go to Heaven.
6. We remain sinners (as long as we are in our sinful bodies) with our sins covered (atoned for) by the shed blood of Jesus. We are commanded to confess our sins.
7. Though the robber may halt his robbery, he remains a sinner.
8. If a chronic robber told me he had stopped robbing. I?d know he had not stopped but merely added lying to his sin of robbery.

In conclusion; Anonymous, your ramblings in semantics have nothing to do with Biblical truth.

Dec 26, 2011
Where's the defense?
by: Larry

i admit the idea of polygamy may be accepted by God (i have NOT researched the issue to say yes or no)you did NOT make the case for homosexuality.Do you have any BIBLICAL evidence that God approves of homosexuality?
1. all biblical references to marriage (polygamous or not) are between MALE and FEMALE. Jesus ONLY affirms MALE and FEMALE and even makes a point to reiterate it when he quotes from Genesis.
2. on 1 Cor 7: Paul said its better to MARRY. marriage is ALWAYS between MALE and FEMALE so there is no actual basis for the statement you made "It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered." just from the exegesis of the passage you are wrong. Paul also said in ch 6 :
"Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

either Paul is contradicting himself or your interpretation is wrong.

Paul condemns homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27

Leviticus 18 is an entire chapter of sexual provisions. you select 1 to disobey. should we have sex with animals now v23,our siblings v9 or aunt & uncle v12-14 our neighbors wife v20 can we sacrifice our children to molek now v21?
God ends lev 18 with this:
Do not defile yourselves in ANY of these ways, because this is how the NATIONS that I am going to drive out before you became DEFILED. Even the land was defiled; so I PUNISHED it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these DETESTABLE things, for ALL these things were done by the people who lived in the land BEFORE you (meaning non Jews), and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the DETESTABLE customs that were practiced before you came and DO NOT defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.
Lev 18:24-30

This is separate from other clean and unclean ceremonial laws. God judged NON Jews for these sins. so this is NOT a matter of Law vs Grace.
so, if God hated it then, and he destroyed NON JEWS for it what makes you think He finds it acceptable now?

i would love to further discuss this issue with anyone who is willing to have an educated civil discussion and exchange of ideas and positions. if you just want to rant and rave and call me names i have no time for you. you can email me at YeshuaEloki@hotmail.com

Dec 26, 2011
Response to Kevin S - 26 July 11
by: larry

i just wanted to correct a MAJOR wrong statement made by one of the commenters. he said that the first english translation was the king james version in 1611 which is so wrong i am actually shocked the mediator did not correct him. the first english translation was actually by john wycliffe in the 1380's. here is a simple link to learn a little about where we got our English translation.

Dec 26, 2011
Time to educate yourself Larry
by: Rick Brentlinger

Larry, I notice you did not address anything I wrote in my post. Instead of obeying 2 Timothy 2:15 and studying the scriptures, you contented yourself with parroting the same false information so many others give.

If I didn't have 650 pages of information on this website, which answer your false information, I could understand why you might remain confused. Yet I DO have 650 pages of high-quality factually correct Biblically accurate info on this website. I hope at some point you will discard the idea that you already know it all so you can obey 2 Tim 2:15 and resume your Bible study.

Concerning your false information: To make the case for homosexuality, we begin by demonstrating that complementarianism, your false teaching that God will only bless a one man with one woman for life marriage, is Biblically false. I did that in the post which you apparently did not read.

We also do that by showing that polygamy in the Bible, one man with more than one woman, is accepted and blessed by God. Did you bother to look up the verses I cited above? Everything you believe about heterosexual marriage and homosexuality flows from your erroneous views about Adam and Eve.

Oddly enough, you only apply your method of interpreting scripture to gay people. You don't use that method of interpretation where it affects your life. You don't apply that method of interpreting scripture to transportation, for example, because if you applied the same logic to transportation, you couldn't drive your car or truck or ride your motorcycle or travel on a bus or an airplane.

The following is my humble attempt to illustrate the absurdity of your hermeneutic by using precisely the same logic you use.

God only affirms a few kinds of transportation in the Bible: walking, riding a donkey, horse or camel, boats or small ships. No other kind of transportation is mentioned in the Bible. Transportation in the Bible is ALWAYS on foot or by four legged animal or by boat.

Do you have any Biblical evidence that God approves of pickup trucks?

Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of your kind of Bible interpretation. This is kinda fun.

Sarcasm: "Hey you! Yeah, the guy getting out of the pickup truck. You're a filthy sinner! Why do you hate God? Why do you rebel against the clear teaching of scripture on transportation? Turn or burn!

Oh no! Are you eating a pulled pork sandwich? Did you have shrimp cocktail with dinner last night? Seriously dude? You are an abomination! That is detestable! How dare you flaunt the clear teaching of Leviticus about not eating pork and shrimp? Get right or get left sucker!" End sarcasm.

If you are seriously interested in understanding Romans 1:26-27 and Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, please click on the NavBar Links under, What The Bible Says, and begin factoring in context when you read the Bible, 2 Timothy 2:15. Many thanks Larry.

Dec 26, 2011
RE: Larry's correction of my statements of July 26th
by: Kevin S.

Larry, my contextual intent was to refer to the earliest BIBLE translation which was printed in English. Rick will correct my comment to reflect that that was the Coverdale Bible, 1535. Thank you brother.

Dec 27, 2011
Post about the first English Bible to be printed now corrected
by: Rick Brentlinger

Larry, thanks for pointing out that there were English Bibles before the King James Version. Kevin and I both know that and yet we both got it wrong.

The 1384 Wycliffe Bible was hand-written because the printing press had not been invented when Wycliffe did his translation.

I've edited Kevin's earlier comment to reflect that the first complete Bible to be printed in the English language was the Coverdale Bible in 1535.

I appreciate the heads up on my sloppy editing. I approved that comment from an Internet cafe while on vacation in California without reading it carefully enough.

Jan 23, 2012
What 1 Cor 1-9 Really Says
by: Eric T

Nowhere in this scripture appears the word companion. You are misquoting

1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Jan 24, 2012
sorry it took so long
by: larry

I have followed 2 Tim 2:15 and I am properly reading and interpreting scripture. Yes, you have 650 pages full of your attempts to prove your position to be true. Muslims have thousands of pages doing the same thing, Mormons as well, wiccans too. You name the group, there is a website that supports their cause. I made my case very clear. The bible does not support homosexual activity. You are digging, twisting, turning and stretching every little thing you can to attempt to support your personal desires.

You said that I am a complementarian, well, while I personally believe this to be true based on the words of Jesus, I admitted to you that based on the information you provided, it is POSSIBLE that God is ok with polygamy. But regardless, it is still heterosexual. U did NOT make the case for homosexual relationships.

But, even with that, Jesus also made it clear that certain things were over looked or allowed because the hardness of mens hearts, God hates divorce yet he allowed it in the law. Polygamous kings could very well be in the same category. What we do see it that polygamous relationships in the bible always produced strife and problems. Just b/c God makes something good come out of a problem does not mean it was a good thing. Jesus came from the off spring of Davids adulterous relationship with Bathshiba, are you going to say that God blesses adultery now?

Ur attempt to say that this is similar to our views on transportation is not real exegesis my friend. You have created a false dichotomy. Scripture is clear on what the purpose of sex is and the purpose of marriage. There is no purpose for transportation other than reaching a physical destination. Sex is spiritual. So, its not the same thing and u r misapplying the logic. If God had said that you should ONLY ride a donkey or ONLY walk or if he would have said that if you travel on anything other than a equine that you are committing a detestable act, THEN you could make this case.

One thing u failed to mention about lev 18:22 is the word H2145 זָכָר zakar means male, not prostitute. If homosexuality is only wrong if ur having sex with a prostitute, then is child sacrifice only wrong if you sacrifice it to Molech? Is bestiality only wrong if you do it in some sort of shrine way? If you discount homosexuality, then you MUST discount child sacrifice to any god other than Molech and bestiality.

Jan 24, 2012
Exceptions prove that complementarianism is not absolute
by: Rick Brentlinger

The point of bringing up polygamy is that it disproves absolute complementarianism. Your one man with one woman belief system can only stand if complementarianism is absolute. By citing God's blessing on polygamy, I have proven that complementarianism is not absolute.

On transportation, if you think it through, my example of transportation is precisely the logic you employ. The Bible doesn't limit us to only using the kinds of transportation mentioned in the Bible. Likewise, the Bible doesn't say that the only acceptable marriage is between a man and a woman. You add that into the text because the text doesn't say it.

Concerning child sacrifice being okay as long as you're not sacrificing your child to Molech, No, that is the wrong conclusion. I give nine thoughtful answers to that illogical argument on the Beastiality page.

Jan 25, 2012
...a sealed mind....
by: Paul

still with the hope of change, i believe Ricks mind is sealed with his numerous self "twisted" analogies concerning Polugamy and worst of all homosexuality

i realy side with larry....u see Acts 17:30...says God overlooked many things (which includes polygamy) ....but now commands us to REPENT......

the fact that God allowed certain evil things because of the ignorance of the people by then does not make it right....
i hv exhausted all my view in my ealier comments and will not say much...

I pray God reveal unto you the truth about this,stay bless

Feb 08, 2012
ur missing something
by: Larry

Editor's Note: I cannot cure your desire to keep repeating false information. Homosexuality is not specifically condemned, as you alleged, unless you take verses out of context and then make your argument from out of context verses.

Larry writes: ur transportation analogy is fundamentally flawed because God never forbids car travel. God DOES forbid homosexuality. the bible does not specifically say "you shall only have one wife" but Jesus makes reference to "the beginning" when talking about divorce. a proper assumption to make (since we are both making assumptions) is that marriage is to be between ONE man and ONE woman since thats how it was IN THE BEGINNING. Does God forbid polygamy? no. is it what he wants? i would say no based on what Jesus says about divorce and the beginning. so, on the matter of polygamy, we would be at a stalemate if u will. we look at all the destruction and hurt that resulted from polygamous relationships in the bible. but its not specifically condemned. in the NEW TESTAMENT we see that bishops and decons for example are to only have one wife. this to me implies the monogamous relationship to be superior. maybe its a cultural thing in which we have liberty? idk.

but as for homosexuality, it is specifically condemned. the words used are
"male dont lie with male like female for sex disgusting thing he is" there is a word for prostitute, its not used. the verses bout child sacrifice specifically mention a specific God. using your exegesis, the context is clearly specifically saying dont sacrifice ur children to molech. u ignore this direct context and posit ur personal context when there is none given! lol homosexual sex is condemned. all of it. weather its consensual or weather its in a temple its condemned.

all ur 9 thoughts on bestiality rest on the false premise that homosexuality is a normal natural life style. this is not proven and according to God its sinful. so, w/o this premise, ur entire argument is w/o foundation...

Feb 14, 2012
please respond
by: amy

To the author of the most recent entry, did you really use the acronym lol? Are you so amused at what you clearly see as your superiority on the issue that you transparently present yourself not unlike a playground bully? Are you say, 20 years old and too young and immature to have some insight regarding yourself and /or self-control? Or are you a grown man? How sad.

I would love to see a response to your recent argument (from the author of this website); however it really must take the patience of Job to take the time to respond to someone with your attitude. It's not deserving of a response.

Editor's Note: My responses to the topics Larry mentions are on the NavBar under, What The Bible Says. Unfortunately, many anti-gay folks are just too lazy to read, study and learn the truth.

Feb 26, 2012
This website conclusively refutes your points
by: larry

mr "editor" I find it interesting that you call me ignorant, yet you do not refute a single point I made. calling me a name does not make you right. I have pointed out that homosexuality is specifically condemned.

Rick's answer: You made that assertion but you didn't cite any verses which, in context, support your assertion.

u cannot deny that. if you use your exegesis that its only temple prostitution, then you have to say that only child sacrifice to molech is wrong and bestiality is only wrong in temple prostitution. you are not willing to admit that because u know that you are wrong. you cant have it both ways. if its only for temple prostitution, then child sacrifice and bestiality are only wrong when conducted in temple worship.

Rick's answer: Larry, I answer that false argument on the Beastiality page.

i also find it interesting that you edited and reduced my response. you have a page where u mock christian people talking about the "slippery slope" towards bestiality yet i sent you secular proof that its a problem in Europe and you left it off of my comment. replacing it instead with "...". please, have intellectual integrity and do not alter my responses. i am not using foul or hateful language. i will re post the link.

Rick's answer: Larry, I do not allow people to post Links to false and perverse teaching on this website. That is why I have twice removed Links you attempted to post.

Feb 26, 2012
to amy
by: larry

do you have anything that you would like to refute from my argument or is the fact that i am light-hearted and said "lol" the only problem you have with me? do i have to be angry when i respond? can i not be in a good mood and be joyful? im sorry if i am not spewing vitriolic nonsense that is easy to dismiss. but thats not my style. i like facts and i do my best to present the truth in love, not hate.

Rick's answer: Larry, you presented no facts. You simply restated your opinion unsupported by facts. We've rejected your opinion precisely because it is unsupported by facts.

Mar 01, 2012
response to Larry
by: amy


I have nothing to say to your "argument", no. I think it was clear what my issue was.

I am thankful we all have the freedom to express our thoughts, etc. It does not make me less sad when it's clear that there is such anger, and hostility at the root. I have to wonder why?

Larry: You did not use the acronym "lol" in a lighthearted, or joyful, manner as you suggest. That is quite obvious. Speak the truth dude. Examine your own heart. And when you're wrong admit you're wrong. Anything less is just.... yucky. - amy

May 09, 2012
Coming from a Christian woman in a relationship with a woman
by: Sonjee

Yes, I am a saved woman in a same sex relationship. Now what I cannot and will not refute is that anything that differs from man before the fall is sinful! Yes me being in a relationship with a woman is sinful

Rick's comment: Just for the record, I don't believe that scripture supports the view you've expressed, that being in a relationship with a woman is sinful.

but oh how wonderful that I have one who justified me on the cross! No my father will not tolerate ANY of my sins but glory to the father he sent me a mediator that intercedes and precedes me. He petitions the father on my behalf and makes me righteous. Let's not act as if we are not sinner, that's not true. We are sinners saved by grace.

Now no sin can enter into the kingdom of God hence the reason we must all die in this flesh body! My flesh is fallen and that is the reason for my desire for the woman.

Rick's comment:That is what the anti-gay crowd teaches but it is not what the Bible says.

Others flesh is fallen hence the reason for their lying or lusting after things of the flesh. We all sin everyday but if we confess our sins he's faithful and just to forgive, isn't he a good God! If it's wrong it's wrong I will not try and make it right but there is no need because on the cross Jesus died for my sins. Thank you Jesus.

Let us rejoice in the knowledge that he have a comforter! Now sin does not stop my salvation in Jesus BUT it hinders our walk with Christ if we do not confess them. So remember, confess your sins everyday and ask him to wash you with the blood to make you clean and righteous and he will do just that. HE is able to present you faultless. This has nothing to do with what you do or don't do in the flesh but what he Did on the cross!!!

Confess your sins right now, accept the cleansing blood of the Lamb and give God the praise. It's what I do daily. I love all of my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus! Let's stop fighting each other and contend for the faith.

Rick's comment: Thanks Sonjee, for commenting. I hope you'll make use of our FREE Bible studies in your life and ministry.

May 09, 2012
Were - 1 Cor 6:9
by: Gene

And such were some of you...

Rick's comment: Quoting part of 1 Cor 6:9 does not add much to the conversation. You seem to assume that it's talking about homosexuals when it is not.

If you are interested in truth, please take the time to get familiar with the context and the meaning of 1 Cor 6:9. Here's a good place to start. Arsenokoites in 1 Cor 6:9.

May 10, 2012
Jesus and marriage
by: Alberto Hernandez

Jesus was commenting on the PRACTICE of marriage as it was carried out in the Jewish community at the time, period. He was not defining the term as you say in your comment. Your remark is not good analysis of the text, not convincing.

May 15, 2012
by: Anonymous

And the latest trend is to call anyone a hater when they disagree with homosexuality, on this I call b---sh-t, I dont hate you, if I did I would let you sin without trying to bring you back to God that way I would know you would burn in hell, but thats not what I want, cause I DONT hate you.

The bible does say not to judge, thats right , point taken , now do you even know what judging means? versus rebuking? The bible DOES say to gently rebuke your neighbor, it DOES say to spread the gospel and teach God's laws.

Rick's comment: You may be interested in reading: Are Christians supposed to judge.

May 15, 2012
If homosex was okay, it would be mentioned in the Bible
by: Anonymous

Another fact to keep in mind: When the bible refers to a marriage between 2 poeple, it pretty much always mentions a wife and a husband, if it was only one instance you might be right, but so many instances out of many different books by different authors over the span of thousands of years, I think if homosexuality was ok, there would be as many couples mentionned in the bible as being 2 women or 2 men.

As for the idea that some have taht any sin is ok because Jesus redeems us, he redeems those who repent not those who persist in sinful practices.

Rick's comment: Okay, I think I'm starting to understand now. Because the Bible only mentions transportation by foot, by boat or by horses, mules and camels, it would be sinful for any of us to travel by motorcycle or truck or trains planes and automobiles?

If other methods of travel were okay, there would be as many other kinds of transportation mentioned in the Bible but there are not and that proves how sinful it is to use other kinds of transportation. Got it - thanks for helping me understand.

May 16, 2012
enough already
by: amy

Virtually every uninformed critic on this site goes by "anonymous."

If you have something to say it is welcomed. If you don't have the courage to type your first name can you please re-examine yourself?

How silly - If I were needing to be "saved" by you, or gently persuaded, do you really believe that would happen when you don't have the simple courtesy and/or courage to be someone other than anonymous?

It would be laughable were it not so tragic.

May 16, 2012
another fact to keep in mind
by: amy

To Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. anonymous-

You are pointing out that Jesus redeems those who repent but who "don't persist in sinful practices." Fascinating. I wonder if we live close to each other because I would so like to know you and get to be friends with you (sarcasm).

I have yet to meet a person who is sin free! I'm so happy to finally know of a person who is completely righteous like yourself. I know the Bible says there is no one righteous not one, but you are the exception then. How exciting! (sarcasm).

Unfortunately for me, I need a savior I'm sorry to tell you. No matter how much I repent I am still aware I have the heart of a prostitute and a criminal. So I need Jesus. How wonderful it would be to repent and be sin free like you. Wish we could chat.

May 17, 2012
Get your own Country
by: Anonymous

To all those who disagree with marriage between homosexuals, I'll say, I follow my own religion, so stop trying to make constitutional laws against it. Freedom of religion, come on. And what I'm asking doesn't hurt anyone. If it hurts you, sue me. My religion supports and allows marriage between homosexuals, just like 15+ other countries which provide and abide by marriage to homosexuals.

What? Do you expect us to be celibate, and all the gay animals too? Not happening is it? America the Beautiful was written by lesbian Katherine Lee Bates. Take a look at your life, your accomplishments with your partner, and deny that to someone else, who is better than you, more deserving, but also an engineer, and gay.

Go ahead and let murderers and rapists marry, but god forbid homosexuals get married. Come on, focus on your own morals and stop trying to knock our attempts at ours down. We do the exact same things you do, but we're just gay...

Jun 14, 2012
The Bible is like Jack and the Beanstalk
by: Anonymous

You guys are so dumb, seriously. To believe in the Bible is equivalent to believing that Jack & the Beanstalk is a true story. How can you guys seriously live your life according to some book that you don't even know who it was written by and if these people were actually sane?

It amazes me the amount of hate Christians have against homosexuals. Seeing them protesting with signs that say "God hates fags". Seriously? I thought God preached love and forgiveness?

I just don't understand how you all can live your life preaching something you don't even know is true.

Rick's Comment: I also marvel at the hatred some Christians have for gays. I also marvel at the hatred some folks have for the Bible. Most of the professing atheists I know have never read the Bible. They reject the truth claims of a book they've never read.

Seriously? That isn't intelligent or scientific.

Jun 26, 2012
Is marriage a religious or secular ceremony?
by: JC

Interpreting scripture always seems to end up in a mess of opinions, the one as immovable in its righteousness as the next.

The Holy Bible was a book written by men. It reflects their opinions and their beliefs. If indeed God is the author of anything, he is the author of the commandments. Everything else is apocryphal.

Rick's comment: No dear. The view you've expressed is liberal unbelief. The Bible makes the opposite claim for itself, that it comes from God as ultimate Author and that every word is God's truth: Psalm 12:6-7, 119:160, Proverbs 30:5, 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

As to the Christians who scream blue murder at the idea of two men marrying: This is a secular issue, not religious. If you don't want them to marry as you are allowed to marry then just pressure your priests and pastors not to conduct such services at your churches. A civil marriage is a matter of civil law NOT of religion.

How you Americans can even vote on something that is supposed to be upheld in your constitution is beyond me. You might then start voting at making any other kind of religious marriage illegal.

Jul 01, 2012
Ricks letters in red
by: Yvonne

"....Every word is Gods truth." Unless, that is you are the only one who knows what God REALLY meant when the truth was written and refuse to actually believe the words in His Truth. It is very clear that you have denied every intelligent argument and scripture quoted straight from Gods truth against the act of homosexuality. Instead, you direct people out the Bible itself, to links of articles and such. You refuse to accept that someone can love the person but not the behavior.

Obviously (after spending a good deal of time reading every entry here) you have come to believe that you are correct and the Bible is wrong, which is very concerning, so how you can write that last part about every word being Gods truth is just another clue that You are blinded by the enemy and can no longer see or be open to the truth. So great is your desire to be accepted.

Well, it's okay. God loves all and wishes that none perish, however, there is no denying scripture. It is just that, Gods truth, and the basis of a Christians faith and it has been clearly been presented to you (yet refused) over and over here.

Rick's comment: Yet you present no verses which in context say what you think they mean.

All that is left us to pray that God will reveal His truth to you eventually and that you well get out if your own way and let His truth be the truth, not yours. As I expect, and like the others who quote directly from the Bible before me, my belief in Gods word as Truth will be struck down and I will be called ignorant because I choose to believe the Bible, rather than you.

Rick's comment: No Yvonne, you believe your interpretation of verses you and your pastors have ripped out of context.

I do not judge you as a homosexual, rather, I am disturbed by your outright denial of the scripture to so many. Blessings to you, brother and may you find in God the truth you so desperately seek.

Rick's comment: And yet I've never denied the scripture. Instead, I've reminded everyone that we must read scripture in context. I'm sorry you are so confused. Why is it so difficult for you to grasp that simple concept? Ripping verses out of context and insisting they blast gays when they don't mean that in context is dishonest.

Jul 02, 2012
Thanks Yvonne!!
by: amy

for not only being willing to comment but being willing to assign your name to your comment. Also for you loving attitude. I am gay and can't change that (that is, I can't change my intrinsic nature but I can control my choices; I wanted to add that before anyone might feel so compelled to add an angry comment) but I rarely see the love of Jesus in anyone and saw it in your comment today. That is really beautiful. Thanks!!

Jul 02, 2012
after thought to Yvonnne
by: amy

Hi Yvonne:

While I appreciated your comment, when I re-read it I noticed that you said Rick calls people ignorant. I haven't seen any evidence of that.

What I have seen is that he claims to put the same value on scripture that I gather you do (from your comment) but is making a case for understanding scripture in context.

I think this is an extremely valid point because if we are honest as a group of human christians (key word honest) I think we can agree we take things out of context to suit our own purposes on a regular basis, including in the Bible.

Rick's comment: Just for the record, I have called some commenters ignorant and will continue to do so. There is no excuse for willful ignorance on the gay issue.

The way to avoid willful ignorance is to:

1. Cultivate the skill of critical thinking.

2. Use your God-given common sense by exercising spiritual discernment when someone takes verses out of context to "prove" their point.

3. Spiritual Christians reject viewpoints which are based on ripping verses out of context.

4. Always interpret scripture in context. All scripture has a cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic, literary and religious context.

5. Constantly remind yourself that if the Biblical text was not addressing homosexuality in ancient times, then the Biblical text is not addressing homosexuality today.

Jul 02, 2012
missed that
by: amy

hey, my bad. I guess I never ran across the ignorant part. Either way, the word ignorant is simply a word used to describe a lack of information. I guess I honestly don't find that to be a put down. I recognize that I am ignorant on many issues. To rectify that, I have to get informed if it is important to do so.

Jul 15, 2012
Believing a lie
by: Anonymous

2 Thessalonians 2:10 - and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. NIV

Romans 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. 28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.

Rick's comment: Is it too much to ask that you ignorant commenters try to keep your scripture quotations in context? Do any of you have honor? Does integrity figure into your lives at all?

Quoting those verses at gays as though the context of those verses is gay people is beyond dumb. I'm just sayin...

And you haven't the guts to use your real name with your mean comments. How sadly typical of you.

Jul 28, 2012
Interpretation of scripture
by: Richard

My heart goes out to the plight of homosexuals. It happened to the African Americans and women and now people of same sex orientation. All share in an effort to prevent others from living their lives to the fullest. It is all done with biblical interpretation, and particulalry with select scripture passages pulled out of context. The obstructionists of course claim God to be on their side because they think they are proclaiming his Word. For their information God's Word is Jesus and Jesus is love. It makes me wonder how anyone could think that Jesus would ever be opposed to people engaging in loving and committed relationships whether they are of the same sex or the opposite. By the way I am heterosexual. As for you folks of homosexual orientation, I think you should be greatly rewarded for your patience with the rest of us. Hang in there. We should appreciate what many of you contribute to our society because of your uniqeness. God bless you!

Jul 30, 2012
love you guys
by: Anonymous

I'm not a Christian, nor am I LGBTQ.

I stumbled on this site to find arguments in favor of gay marriage here. I found what I was looking for and I thank you for your help. :) The African American rights battle was my parents' fight and the LGBTQ is my fight.

Just to let you know, I love you guys and you are always welcome in my heart and home. Still fighting! Check out the following on FB, if you haven't already: Wipeout Homophobia on Facebook, Unicorn Booty (...decidedly NSFW), Human Rights Campaign and Gay Marriage USA.

Good luck and fight the good fight!

Rick's comment: Your love and support are much appreciated! Thanks for stopping by.

Jul 31, 2012
My thoughts
by: SonjeeComing

Wow, I must say that I desire, more than anything, TRUTH. Now the truth of the matter is I have accepted that god did not make me love women no more than he made Adam a sinful man. This all came after the fall. Me being a woman loving women happened because of sin, period. He still loves me, I'm still saved but I refuse to call him a liar by saying that this was his desire. No. His desire was for me to join with a man but SIN because of the fall corrupted everything. Now let's stop. Let ask god to help us be lovers of truth. My desire for women was not his design. A man lusting after every woman was not his design. A woman and man sleeping around was not his design but god gave us Jesus! He saved us. So I am a sinner saved by grace!

Rick's comment: Thanks Sonjee for your insights. We disagree that being gay or lesbian is a result of the fall of Adam. We also disagree that it is sinful to be in a gay or lesbian relationship. You may want to read and study the material on this website - more than 650 pages - so that you will know our counter-arguments for the points you've made. Many thanks.

Aug 09, 2012
Thank You
by: Joseph

Rick, Thank you very much for your the work that are doing; you have undertaken a very difficult task. I have found that it is nearly impossible to argue with people whose only knowlege of the scriptures is what they have been told to believe. I have been told by some that they do not have to read the Bible because they already know what it says.

My 'pastor' stated last Fall that "the sin of homosexuality is right up there with murder, rape, and pedophilia." That is all that the nodding Roman Catholics needed to hear. We get to read and hear letters from our Archbishop that our freedom of religion is being attacked. Our Archdiocese is a founding member of the Maryland Marriage Alliance, the organization which got the issue of marriage equality put on the ballot this coming November.

Needless to say, it has become painful for me to even go to church. You have given me hope that, maybe someday, Christianity will shed its irrational fear of poeple who are not straight. Thank you for being a peacemaker; you are blessed.

Rick's comment: Thanks Joseph, for your kind and thoughtful comments. It is not easy to change hearts and minds. Our task is to live for the Lord as His faithful Biblical disciples, regardless of what others say about us. The Holy Spirit will help us honor our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Aug 09, 2012
same sax marriage cannot be justified in the scripture
by: Anonymous

Do you take it literally that the man and a woman when they marry shall become one? Each losing his/her own individuality even in the promise of judgement where everyone will stand to be judged?

Rick's comment: Yes, Genesis, Jesus and Paul tell us that the two shall be one. That indicates that a marriage is not a civil or religious ceremony but instead, is the one flesh union of two people. For heterosexuals, the one flesh union is between a man and a woman. For homosexuals, the one flesh union is between two men or two women.

No, people who get married do not lose their individuality. They retain their unique qualities.

Yes, we will all stand at the judgment. Saved people will be at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Unsaved people will be at the Great White Throne Judgment as described in Revelation 20. Hope this is helpful to you.

Aug 15, 2012
there is no argument
by: A Father

The sin of Sodom and Gomorah was what became stated as sodomy sexual sin. I have read most of your materials but the most ridiculous argument is that of your attempt to address the definition of eunechs as was described by Jesus in the book of Matthew. You are the victim of what you have proposed concerning reading scripture in context. In chapter 19 Jesus is addressing divorce he clearly is addressing natural eunechs as those born that way, not homosexuals. Born that way meaning without the ability to perform sexually or procreate. There is no special status for homosexuals. The practice whether as male prostitutes or otherwise is simply described as a sin. Many say people are born that way. To that assertion I do not know. As some are born more prone to addiction, some with severe disabilities, some blind, some as eunechs without the ability of sexual function, only Jesus can help you cope with your condition through a relationship eternal in scope. The relationship with Christ can surpass any earthly relationship between man and woman and it is to him that those with homosexual thoughts should invest their concern. This is the eunech mentioned by Christ that made themselves as such for the Kingdom. I feel for the desires of one antagonized with homosexual thoughts, It has got to be difficult especially for younger individuals but that doesnt take away from the fact of acting on those emotions is sin. You can't reinvent the wheel. Marriage is between a man and a woman. I do agree with your comments and examples of polygamy but unfortunately that doesn't help your argument. All polygamous relationships were between a man with more than one wife, not other men.

Rick's comment: May I humbly encourage you to reread my eunuchs pages? Even the leading anti-gay evangelical Christian scholar, Dr. Robert Gagnon, agrees that the group Jesus describes as born eunuchs DID include homosexuals.

A Father comments: My own son a mere teenager has been overtaken with these thoughts and I have seen first hand how it impacts his ability to function. I have taken him out of school to simply cope with living. It has taken over every aspect of his thought processes. He is a christian and struggles daily. He sent me to your website, as he is attempting to validate his thoughts. Unfortunately this website has misguided him and has led himin the wrong direction.

Rick's comment: My heart goes out to you and your wife and your wonderful son. Most of all at this difficult time, your son needs to know that his father and mother love him unconditionally.

A Father's comment: I will pray that you come to the realization it is sin. Though dificult to manage as the flesh is so vulnerable, a committment to Christ and a cellabate lifestyle is the answer.

Aug 17, 2012
Re: Lisa Miller
by: Anonymous

Really, you are so stuck in your ways you cannot see another's point of view. That is tacky and wrong. Apparently you are the one that is capable of judging, not god, or did he appoint you to this task. Are you so misinformed that you believe everything that has been told to you? Welcome to 2012. New times call for new attitudes.

Aug 18, 2012
by: Rachel

I think you make a very good point when you say that we as christians need to spend more time worrying about the divorce epidemic in our own churches. As I have been studying what the bible says about marriage I have come to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10,

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterer, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves, nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God"

I think we as the church tend to point out homosexuality and say that it is worse than any other sin. However, if you look at this passage there are many other sins that will destroy your life just as easily. Idolatry? Thievery? Greediness? Slander? I have been guilty of each of these. So I will not sit here and point out the sins of "homosexual offenders" because I have just as much evil sin in my own life. However, this passage does show that choosing to be a homosexual offender is a sin in God's eyes. I will not cast the blame, because my own life is not right. I will leave it to God to convict each of us in our own sin.

Rick's comment: Interesting points. I gently remind you that the NIV translation, homosexual offenders, is WAY off the mark. The Greek words malakoi and arsenokoitai were NEVER used with the meaning homosexual in the first century, when Paul used those words in 1 Cor 6:9.

I hope you'll take time to check the NavBar under, What The Bible Says, and read the latest info on 1 Cor 6:9. Many thanks!

Aug 21, 2012
Gays will not see heaven unless they repent.
by: Anonymous

Paul clearly states that gays will never see heaven many times. Stop trying to manipulate a holy book to become unholy. I have not personal ax to grind with gays but that is what is stated.

Rick's comment: Did it ever occur to you that the NIV is incorrectly translated in 1 Cor 6:9? The word homosexual should not be in any Bible.

If you're interested in truth about these issues, I present a lot of information to support what I teach on this website. Click on any NavBar link under, What The Bible Says.

Best wishes as you obey 2 Tim 2:15 and continue to explore these issues.

Aug 30, 2012
Jesus didn't have to say it
by: Daniel

There are New Testament scriptures condemning homosexuality. Romans 1:26-27 is very clear. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 it uses the Greek term arsenokoitai which means sodomite.

Rick's comment: Hi Daniel - thanks for stopping by. If you'll click on the NavBar under arsenokoites and malakoi and Romans 1:26-27, you will be delighted to discover that you are wrong. I say delighted because I believe you are an honest Christian who is man enough to admit when he gets it wrong.

Daniel's comment: This of course, could refer to heterosexual sodomy which would be equally sinful. I am sorry that there is so much hatred directed at you guys and girls. It's not what Jesus wants of His followers, I know that. I also know that homosexuality not your choice for most of you.

Although I don't think it's genetic either, especially since there is no scientific proof of it, which by now would've been discovered. I think it's something that develops in a child or teenager due to circumstances and choices made such as sexual abuse or pornography (just two examples, not the only ones). The question you have to ask yourself is if you believe the epistles to be the Word of God. If so, then you have to accept that sodomy is a sin by reading the 1 Corinthians passage and that homosexuality is a sin by the Romans passage.

If you want to deny the validity of the epistles, then you can continue with arguing over the semantics of what Jesus said. But deep down you have to know that this isn't what God intended for us. Blessing and peace to you, brother. May God guide you as you walk with Him. - Daniel

Rick's comment: You may have us confused with some liberal gay Christians who deny the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible. We affirm those truths and accept the historicity, canonicity and veracity of the epistles. For more info on that, please click on, What We Believe, on the Navbar.

Thanks for adding your comments Daniel. I hope we can be a blessing to you in your spiritual walk as you grow in grace and knowledge of our wonderful Lord and all-sufficient Savior, Jesus Christ.

Sep 04, 2012
If so, how can you claim it's not a sin?
by: Daniel

If you agree that the epistles are God breathed then how can you claim that homosexuality isn't sinful? I think Paul makes it clear that it is a sin. It seems that there is some intellectual dissonance going on here.

Rick's comment: Hi Daniel. May I point out that as nice a guy as you must be, it appears to me you have not studied this issue. Your opinion that the Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin or that I am misrepresenting the epistles holds no water. You have not presented any facts, you have not presented any proof and you have not interacted with the detailed information I've presented which contradicts your views.

For example, I list on this website the first 56 uses of the arsenokoit stem in extant Greek literature. None of those citations uses the arsenokoit stem to mean homosexual.

Daniel's comment: You can't believe that both the epistles are God breathed and inerrant in message AND that homosexuality isn't a sin. They're diametrically opposed.

Rick's comment: Again Daniel, you need to read and study this issue. I say it with love but you simply don't know what you're talking about on this issue.

Daniel's comment: You only have a few choices. You can say that Paul was wrong and therefore the epistles are not God breathed /inerrant, or you can misinterpret those verses and say they mean something different from what they obviously say, or you have to admit homosexuality is sinful. There is no way around it.

Thank you for your response. Have a great day!

Rick's comment: As I see it, your choices are to continue to claim others are misinterpreting these verses because you haven't bothered to study the issue OR you can obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and study to shew yourself approved unto God. That includes interpreting the Bible in context. God bless you Daniel.

Sep 05, 2012
My apologies
by: Daniel

I did not see at least half of your argument because I thought your whole response was the last part of it. The first half of it blended in with my previous comment. Now that I see your argument in totality, I will look further into it and respond accordingly after I've come to a conclusion. It was not my intention to ignore what you've said, I thought you were ignoring the points that I made but I see now it was a simple misunderstanding.

Sep 05, 2012
For the record...
by: Daniel

I never said that arsenokoitai meant homosexual. I'm aware that there is no Greek word for homosexual. I said it means 'sodomite' (also interpreted as 'effeminate'). Sodomy is the sin referred to here and that could be heterosexual as well. However effeminate could refer to men who used young call boys for sex.

Just wanted to make that clear. Seeing how it's rather late, I'm going to continue this another time.

Rick's comment: The word sodomite, as used in the Bible, never means homosexual. I go into quite a bit of detail about sodomites on this page and provide a Biblical definition of the word.


Sep 23, 2012
Homosexuality is shameful to God
by: Ellis

If you read Romans 1: 26-27 it clearly states that it is natural that Man marry Woman, that God does not like homosexuality and that it is shameful. I myself have no problems with gay people, it is up to God to judge but if your going to study a subject you need to study it entirely.

Rick's comment: I hope you will read my Romans pages AND Romans chapter 1 in the King James Bible. It does not say what you think it says. I encourage you to read and reread it until it sinks into your heart. Many thanks.

Sep 24, 2012
I'm not seeing it, Rick.
by: Daniel

I read the Romans passage in context again, and I still can't see anything other than it talking about women having sex with women and men having sex with men. It seems to me that you're reading a presupposition you hold into the text instead of letting the text speak for itself. Here are the verses within the necessary literal context:

"24 So God let them go. He allowed them to do what their sinful hearts wanted to. He let them commit sexual sins. They polluted one another’s bodies by what they did.

25 They chose a lie instead of God’s truth. They worshiped and served created things. They didn’t worship the Creator. But he must be praised forever. Amen.

26 So God let them go. They were filled with shameful LONGINGS. Their women committed SEXUAL acts that were not natural. 27 In the same way, the men TURNED AWAY from their natural LOVE FOR WOMEN. They burned with SEXUAL longing for each other. Men did shameful things with other men. They suffered in their bodies for all the twisted things they did." (this is the ESV translation which is far more accurate than the King James since it is a more literal translation and wasn't decreed by a king with alternative motives for the scriptures)

I'm sorry, but that can only mean one thing. You can think up all the alternative ways of skewing the meaning of it, but anyone reading that with the intent to find the truth of the passage would come to the conclusion that it's referring to same sex intercourse or other sexual acts. The 1 Corinthians passage is arguable, but this is very clear. It patently states that homosexual acts are unnatural and shameful. I don't know how much clearer it could possibly be. I think it's clear that I am obeying 2 Timothy 2:15. Just because I disagree with you about a passage doesn't mean I'm disobedient. Perhaps you should look into what Jesus says about judging others. I hope this shows you that my argument isn't unsubstantiated. In fact, most biblical scholars hold this view. Are you saying that most of those men and women who have devoted their lives to studying Bible and hold a view contrary to yours are not obeying 2 Timothy 2:15?

Rick's comment: What you are doing is called anachronism, reading into the text your modern views instead of letting the text speak as a first century document. No way did Paul swerve from his argument about Gentile idolatry to condemn lesbians and gays.

The sexual activity Paul describes is linked to idolatry, otherwise Paul's argument makes no sense. Please read it again and also, look at my Romans page. Even anti-gay commentators agree with me about the context. Many thanks.

Sep 25, 2012
in reference to Daniel's comments
by: amy

Rick: I also have a question regarding this current discussion. I understand the idolatry link. What bothers me about the above mentioned passages (and these are the ones that bother me by far more than any other biblical reference to same sex) is the Bible making such an effort to refer to same sex the way it does. That is, the fact that the Bible says women and men are exchanging what is natural for what is unnatural. The point is strongly made. As I have been studying your site, what I have gotten from all of this is that idolatry is bad and so is same sex sex. That is what I take from it. The fact that the same sex behavior and idolatry are linked, doesn't dissuade from the fact that same sex is pointed out as unnatural and not supported. I don't see how to get around the emphasis, biblically, on unnatural and exchanging what is natural, etc.

Rick's comment:

Hi Amy- I think you and Daniel are reading into Romans 1 an aversion to same sex love which is not in that chapter. It would be like interpreting Genesis 34, where the heterosexual rape of Dinah is recorded, that all heterosexual sex is wrong.

In my opinion, you've allowed the out of context indoctrination of the anti-gay crowd to rule your thinking instead of rightly dividing the word of truth. I hope you will continue to read and study because our loving Lord has a lot more grace and mercy for His GLBT children than you're giving Him credit for. Hope this is helpful.

Sep 25, 2012
I disagree.
by: Daniel

In verse 25 it says they chose idolatry and lies over their Creator and then finishes the talk about idolatry with "Amen.". In verse 26, he says "SO God let them go." meaning that because of their choice to serve false gods, God gave them up to their fleshly lusts. Homosexuality was a result of their idolatry, so it fits perfectly with the context of Paul talking about idolatry. I am not denying the fact that it starts out referring to idolatry. If the sexual acts had something to do with idolatry, why don't verses 26 and 27 say anything about idols, worship, or religious practices? I would submit that verse 24 is in relation to idolatry and sexual sins to honor false gods. But 26 clearly refers to homosexuality resulting from idolatry, not sexual acts for idolatry.

Rick's comment: No Daniel, homosexuality is not a result of their idolatry. Sadly, you are misreading the text. I do hope you will continue to read and study. You haven't got it right yet.

Sep 26, 2012
by: amy

Hey Rick:

Thanks for getting back!! I think it's possible (just possible) to believe that God is not in favor of same sex love and sex, and still believe that God does have all of the grace and mercy that you made reference to. I am continuing to read. I just moved, but found your book and have it right here. :) I understand the point you are making. But I don't see a connection between a rape reference and heterosexual relationship. Rape is violent and there is lots of affirming stuff in the Bible about loving, respectful, heterosexual love/sex. What bugs me about the verse that got mentioned and that I was commenting on, is that while there is an idolatry link, the verse talks about giving up what is natural. That seems pretty straightforward, idolatry link or not.

Rick's comment: Congrats on the move. Hope it's a blessing. Natural as used in Romans had a wide range of meaning. Many of the first century meanings of natural are not part of Christian beliefs today.

Paul's argument is about idolatry and he cites examples of Gentile idolatry which by the way, ancient Israel also indulged in. He makes no reference to lesbians, no reference to gay men, no reference to bisexuals, no reference to transgendered individuals in Romans 1.

To believe otherwise is anachronism, reading our 21st century beliefs into a first century document. Romans 1 cannot be divorced from its cultural, historical and religious context. If we divorce it from those three, we come up with the false teaching of the anti-gay crowd.

I believe there is an element of self-loathing in GLBTs who give in to the false teaching of Exodus International and the anti-gay crowd.

We are FREE in Christ, we are under GRACE and God is not angry with us for being gay or enjoying intimate relationships with the partner God brings into our life.

Sep 27, 2012
That's hardly an argument
by: Daniel

You have no argument against my point other than "You misread the text, you got it wrong."?? I could just as easily say the same to you and that would be just as wrong. I have given a reasonable and substantiated argument based on the context and wording of the verses which it seems you are unable to refute or explain away.

I never said God didn't love those who participate in homosexuality, and neither do I question their salvation, as it is not my place to do so. However, I will not secede from the apparent fact that homosexual behavior is sinful. Yes, just as sinful as hatred, envy, greed, etc.; but sinful nonetheless. To say otherwise is to deny clear teachings of scripture.

It was a pleasure discussing this with you, Rick. I wish you all the best. May God bless and keep you.


Rick's comment: Hi Daniel - Your argument is answered in my book and on my website. There is no way Paul was blasting lesbian women and gay men in Romans 1. That is not at all his argument. His argument is about idolatry and the sexual behavior he mentions involved temple prostitutes.

You have no scriptural warrant for insisting that Paul also intended to condemn lesbians and gays. As I pointed out to Amy, you are engaging in anachronism, reading your 21st century views into a first century document. I wish you God's best as you walk the path of His purpose for your life.

Sep 28, 2012
You're misunderstanding me
by: Daniel

I'm not saying that Paul's purpose here was to condemn gays. He's just stating a cause and effect. The cause was idol worship and the effect was God releasing them to unnatural lusts for the same sex. You're claiming that I'm making the verses out to focus on homosexuality when I'm most certainly not. It's more like Paul mentioning it as an afterthought. Even so, it's still a valid passage and can really only mean one thing. I'm not engaging in anachronism, this is clear to many biblical scholars who avoid anachronism like the plague. You have the right to disagree, but it seems to me that you're unconsciously reading your bias into the text.

Rick's comment: Hi Daniel. I do not have time to argue in the comments section. You ignored everything I wrote in the post and tried to switch the discussion to Romans 1. You then proceeded to ignore first century culture, history and religion as if they did not exist so that you could argue that Paul was addressing homosexuality. He was not.

Sep 30, 2012
I haven't ignored anything you've said
by: Daniel

I addressed every argument you have presented regarding the Romans passage and I still have found no valid points to explain away the way Paul worded verses 26 and 27. My stance stands in light of cultural, historical, and literal contexts and you have not provided anything other than opinion and false claims to disprove that. You are welcome to no longer partake in the discussion. In fact, it seems that's the only productive choice as it seems that you are unwilling to be open to the fact that you could be wrong. I gave thought to the possibility of me being wrong on the subject and researched it myself. I found that some passages used to condemn homosexuality very possibly don't actually do so; but this passage is unavoidably claiming homosexuality as sinful within all contexts. Please hear me, though, I am not claiming that you aren't a Christian nor that you don't love God. It's also apparent that you study the Word of God a lot. But that does NOT mean that everything you believe about the Bible is factual, just as it is with me and every other human on this earth, no matter how much schooling they've had or time they've put into studying it. There will always be these types of division in the Church, but it should NEVER get in the way of coming together in the unity of Christ or produce attitudes arrogance. You are not better than me, nor I than you. Let's try to keep that in mind when discussing these issues, because no matter how much we disagree, as long as we agree on Christ, we are brothers in Him. God bless, Rick!

Rick's comment: No Daniel, not even close. You haven't even read most of what I've written on Romans 1. And really, I've been more than patient in letting you "discourse" here on Romans 1, even though your comments are off topic and have nothing to do with the title and contents of my original post.

Oct 01, 2012
following up with Daniel's comments
by: amy

Rick: This is a comment section on your website, that you created, where you consistently respond to comments. To randomly say, "I'm not going to argue with you" because you don't like what someone is concluding is hardly strengthening your point, among other issues.

The issue at hand: I am confused because, speaking for myself, I was referring to Romans 1. I thought Daniel was as well. You said he was switching the conversation to Romans 1. Switching? I can't speak for Daniel but Romans 1 was exactly the passage I was referring to, and it seems that was the passage in discussion. Romans 1 was the very reason I specifically got involved in this conversation.

We all know what Romans 1 says. I don't believe there is any confusion on the idolatry issue, so no need to refer back to studying it again on this site. While the Bible is referring to idol worship, it is a stretch of monumental proportions (in my opinion) to believe that the negative explanation of turning people over from what is natural to unnatural somehow doesn't apply to us. That is so clear it is painful. So they are idol worshipers. And? What you are saying is this has no relevance to a gay relationship, where two people love each other, buy groceries, go to church, don't worship idols, etc... I get it. I just think you're wanting that to be so instead of it being so. Whether I worship idols or not, I think it's clear God is also expressing the issue of what is natural and God intended with what is not.

As you know already, I am gay. So for anyone reading this I think that is important, because I am hardly a bigot. As for my own self-loathing being the problem, I doubt it. You have suggested that before and I have considered it. I believe I love the Lord, live in the freedom and joy of being saved by Jesus, and want to live my life in His will. I believe it's a logical conclusion that many people have come to, and I don't believe everyone has it in for gays, and I don't believe everyone is ignorant, and I don't believe my concern comes from a place of self-loathing. As for anachronism, I doubt it. I think what I am seeing is straight forward and I am authentically interested in truth. I am intelligent and not a child. I have considered the issues of my own psyche coming into play.

Either way, it isn't acceptable nor is it a strong position, to continue to rest your laurels on me having intentional or unintentional psychological issues (using anachronism or self-loathing) and that is ultimately your final word.

Since that is your final word however, then my question is, have you considered the possibility that you are reading your own bias into this? What have you done to guard yourself against that possibility and how do you conclude that you are not?

Oct 01, 2012
This may help Daniel and Amy
by: Rick Brentlinger - Website Founder

I try to answer comments when I have time but I do not engage in lengthy debates in the comment section because the comments are not read by very many people and I don't have time to debate issues which are not part of my original posts. For instance, Romans 1 has nothing to do with the post: Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

I think it will be helpful to both of you to read what I've written instead of asking me to provide new answers. I have A LOT of info on this website about Romans 1 and I am fairly certain from the questions both of you have, that you have not read what I have written.

The way to debate an issue is not to ignore what I've written and keep raising new questions and making blanket assertions that you cannot support with facts. That is what both of you are doing and Amy, I have taken many hours and sent you many private email answers over the last year.

I hope you will visit the link below and read what I've written on Romans 1. I believe I more than adequately address the issues you raise. Many thanks for stopping by.

Romans 1 pages on GayChristian 101

Oct 08, 2012
False teachings.
by: Anonymous

It is sad to see false teachings. The Bible says a lot about those who falsely teach. To take a scripture and try to fit it into a lifestyle that is wrong so you feel better about what you are doing is wrong and you will face God's judgment. 1 Corinthians 7 1-9 does not give the okay to homosexual deviance. You can only serve one God or Satan. God gives us free will. I see you chose the latter.

Rick's comment: I'm sorry you cannot read plain English. Your opinion is your opinion, nothing more. I do hope you have enough sense to recognize your obligation to read and study the Bible IN CONTEXT, 2 Timothy 2:15.

If you start doing that, you will soon conclude that some of what you've been taught is wrong. Then you will be faced with a decision. Do I embrace the truth God has showed me or do I continue to parrot false teaching?

I hope you choose to embrace God's truth. Many thanks for stopping by.

Oct 11, 2012
Homosexuality is not okay, the bible clearly states it.
by: Anonymous

There are verses in the bible that specifically say
Homosexuality is NOT okay.

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Rick's comment: Wow, the depth of your ignorance is astonishing. Did it ever occur to you to read and interpret scripture in context? The context of those verses is temple prostitution, not homosexuality.

God's truth is on this website IF you are serious about believing God's truth. Sadly, it appears you are not serious. Thanks for stopping by.

Oct 12, 2012
There Was One Man, There Was One Woman. Period.
by: Anonymous

So, if I'm eight years old and am a sexual relationship a seventy-five year old man, what then?

Have you not read Romans 1 26-27? You must have. How about 1 Corinthians 9-10? Didn't like that one either, eh?

Jesus never once supported homosexuality, just as he chose to define marriage as between a man and woman. It should be noted that while he was not responding to a gay marriage question, he first chooses to define marriage as between a man and woman before answering the question.

"He Who created them from the beginning made them male and female"

It is you who have substituted your own opinion by placing more importance upon the question than the answer.

Also, God did not condone polygamy, but gave rules for converting believers who already had more than one partner.

I am not a perfect Christian. I personally believe myself lost. We all are. We need God's word, and should not modify it to suit our own comforts. Please, do not take advantage of God by indulging in both His love and sin.

Do I have problems of my own? Absolutely. But please, don't fall prey to the comforting words of those who advise sin.

God wants us to love another, but not to condone each other's sin, for it seperates us from Him.

To be either a man or a woman is a gift. Do not waste it, please.

Rick's comment: I've answered goofy screeds like yours ad nauseum. If you want truth, it is available simply by reading the Bible and this website. If you're not interested in truth, God will not shove it down your throat in this life. Thanks for stopping by.

Oct 14, 2012
After reading your Romans article...
by: Daniel

I am still left without a sufficient "explanation" of verse 27 which says with no ambiguity that men were trading in their natural sexual relations with women for that of unnatural relations with other men. This fits in just fine with the context despite your unsupported claim that it doesn't. It's a cause and effect motif. They were involved in pagan idolatry so God gave them up to unnatural desires for other men. You have danced around this argument with opinion stated as fact without providing a single sufficient argument or explanation for this verse to show that it can't fit into the context. Nor have you given anything that suggests it has an alternative meaning. Your fancy Bible college terms and knowledge of Greek won't fool me into believing this nonsense. It doesn't require a doctorate in hermeneutics to see that verse 27 is clearly referring to homosexual activity as an EFFECT of their pagan idolatry. Despite our discord on this subject, I still wish you blessings and love in Christ and I pray that you find the truth in all that you do. God bless, Rick. Truly.

Rick's comment: Daniel, you are so intent on imposing your anti-gay view on Romans 1:27 that apparently nothing will convince you otherwise. I hope you will continue to study because you are missing God's truth by a country mile.

Our early Christian ancestors, including the first Christian we have on record as commenting on Romans 1:26-27, Aristides, believed Paul was talking about temple prostitution. Use our search feature to find my Aristides page and please read it. Many thanks for stopping by.

Oct 14, 2012
What does the bible say?
by: Dean

“For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.”
—Romans 1:26-27 (NKJV)

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
—1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)

“Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,”
—1 Timothy 1:9-10 (NKJV)

Wow! in these three passages it is clear that acts of homosexuality is lumped right in there with murderers, kidnappers, and thieves. So unless the two women or two men getting married never plan on consummating there union by committing acts of homosexuality then I would say Go for it. But you and I know that would not be the case. It is one thing to tolerate sin in the church ( AKA gossip ) while trying to stop it, but to blatantly support and promote it is something all together different.

These three references indicate that homosexual passions and acts are unnatural, shameful, contrary to sound doctrine and deny entrance to the Kingdom of God. This being so, they cannot be the basis of a Christian marriage sanctioned by God’s Church. The Church exists to save people, not to bless the means of their damnation. No marriage can be sanctioned by the Church if the very basis of the marriage involves acts that put the couple outside of eternal salvation. No matter what our society may legislate, the law of God is clear - that a marriage is not a godly marriage if it is a same sex union.

Rick's comment: Dean, time to buy a vowel or get a clue. The Bible does not use any of the Greek words which would indicate homosexuality. The NKJV is incorrect when it inserts words into the Biblical text which make it appear that Paul was condemning gays.

Your rancor is unbecoming of your professed Christianity. I hope you will get right with the God you profess to love and start loving your gay brothers and lesbian sisters. Attacking them using mistranslated verses as your weapon only insures we will not listen to you. Thanks for stopping by.

Oct 19, 2012
I'm imposing nothing
by: Daniel

If you had any actual evidence supporting your claims about verse 27, then I could certainly be persuaded to believe otherwise. I believe what the Bible says, regardless of how inconvenient it may be. However, you have failed to provide a valid argument for the meaning of verse 27. Not once did I say that the verses preceding verse 27 aren't about temple prostitution. You keep saying I have but if you reread what I've written you'll see that you are incorrect. The reason I seem to be immovable on the subject is that you have failed to prove your view as the biblical one. If you were to provide a reasonable and biblical argument I'd be willing to admit that I might be wrong or even consider changing my position. However that isn't the case. I think you should look at yourself and see if you're guilty of what you are accusing me.

Rick's comment: Daniel, this is getting ridiculous. You have the proof you need in the many pages on my website about Romans 1. Either you are incapable of reading with comprehension or you love bloviating about how I haven't proven something to you.

You have not answered what I have written yet you keep demanding proof while ignoring what I have written. You are typical of so many commenters who refuse to deal with scripture in context while attempting to appear reasonable and scriptural.

Oct 30, 2012
This is to the antigays.
by: Ismaila

Please explain 1 Samuel 1:26.

"I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women." King James Version

"I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was extraordinary, surpassing the love of women." English Standard Version

"How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women!" New Living Translation

Oct 30, 2012
by: Anonymous

Why can't people admit being "Wrong"? And why is a man built the way they are and a woman a woman, if God did not want us to reproduce?

Rick's comment: I agree. Why cannot Christians get their minds around the fact that God loves and saves gays without changing our sexual orientation?

I hope you'll carefully read the entire post that started this thread of comments. You will find it profitable to read it slowly and carefully AND look up the verses given.

At some point in time, Christians need to believe what the Bible says in context and stop insisting their opinion trumps scripture. Many thanks for stopping by.

Nov 01, 2012
A bit of advice

Rick, As a gay man who considers himself a follower of Christ, who appreciates your insight and agrees with much ( but not all) of what you say... I have to comment on your delivery.

When you respond to people, your tone is very condescending and arrogant. You judge others who do not agree with you and accuse them of " not being interested in the truth" simply because they are at a different place then you. Did it ever occur to you that many of the people that read your stuff might be fighting the fact that they themselves are gay? Instead of them being met by someone who prides himself with knowledge and who seems all to eager to deliver a biblical knock-out punch, wouldn't it be better for you to meet them with compassion , remembering that they are only responding out of what they know? Instead of demeaning and accusing them of not knowing the truth, wouldn't it better to respond in love and compassion , understanding where they are ?

Responding with quips like " Do you really think your lazy illogic will pass muster at the judgment seat of Christ?" is not helpful in building a bridge to understanding. I think GCN has a good rule, instead of phrasing something in a statement, phrase it in a graceful question.

Rick, you must remember that you have not arrived. You do not possess all truth. God may be bringing people into your life to teach you something..even those who disagree with you.

I encourage you to season yourself with the gentleness of the Holy Spirit.

Rick's comment: Thanks for your insight. In my opinion, what you and GCN do in practice is take the post-modern view. GCN rules level the playing field by putting anyone's opinion on the same level as what the Bible says.

I believe that is a huge apologetics error and therefore I take a strong Biblical stand for God's truth, rejecting post-modernism and its attempts to make all truth relative and all beliefs equally valid.

I also speak and write from the standpoint of receiving literally thousands of nasty negative emails from anonymous anti-gay christians who have never studied the issues on which they comment. And the truth is, they have no intention of studying the issues. Facts are secondary because they over-value their opinion.

My writing style intends to confront their intellectual laziness and spiritual ignorance. That is the job of a prophet - to take God's side in times of declension and apostasy when God has an argument with His people.

God is pro-gay. God loves GLBTs, died to save us from our sins and will freely give us the righteousness of Christ as a free gift when we receive Him as our Savior by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Hope this is helpful in explaining why I respond as I do. I will also note that I do respond gently in many cases. Part of walking in the Spirit is listening to His leading and responding as He directs me. That is not always popular but that is always my goal when answering comments.

Nov 11, 2012
Gay Marriage
by: Anonymous

What about Sodom and Gomorrah? This was before Jesus' time. Homosexuality did happen in Jewish time. That is way Jesus stated Marriage is between a Man and a Women. I think Christian have a hard time with the Gays using the word Marriage. Why not use Legal Union?

Rick's comment: It will be helpful if you'll get familiar with the issues and what the Bible says before commenting. No where in scripture does Jesus state that "Marriage is between a man and a woman." That you think He said that indicates you are not familiar with what scripture says in context.

Nov 11, 2012
I believe
by: Anonymous

Well jesus is the one true son of god come to earth in the cloak of the flesh in order to save us from our sins and nobody is good enough on their own to even begin to think about entering the kingdom of heaven. We all need Jesus the son of God in order to speak with Jehovah God the father and if we dont have him we cannot obtain such a communication. Now if this communication is not made we cannot enter into his realm. The bible says that as long as we know the son that we know the father also and that if we do not know the son we cannot know the father.

We should also put Jesus first and foremost in our lives and give up everything to follow him and then take up the cross alongside him. We need to love him because he first loved us and we cannot love him in truth unless we love each other so basically we must love the lord our God with all our heart all our body all our mind and all our soul love our neighbour as ourselves and have true faith that Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary was baptized by John resurrected Lazarus from the dead was crucified by the sons of the world and arose himself from the dead three days later to ascend and promise to return and deliver us from oppression of the world.

Do you follow this? If you do these things then if you are straight you wouldn't judge your homosexual brethren and if you're homosexual you would be monogamous correct? For the sin is fornication, not spending the rest of your life with a very wonderful person you love and cherish.

If they're guilty for that then look over at your wife and give yourself the same scrutiny because the flesh is worthless its what lies underneath the flesh and if the partner you find that completes you just so happens to have the same flesh as you remember its not an issue because the flesh is worthless we wont have it forever it means nothing and by feeding this issue you are all glorifing the flesh and making an issue that has very little standing very great.

If you truly have faith and truly believe and you're a man and you live with this man just as anyone else would live with a woman there is no difference. That's what i believe. I believe in JESUS CHRIST the HOLY SON of GOD! I believe i am washed in his blood and on judgement day if i have surmised wrong he wont know me but i ask him not to forget me and so through faith i know he wont. Good day Ladies and Gentlemen.

Nov 18, 2012
God's plan for marriage
by: Bonnie

God's original design is revealed in Genesis 2:24, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, [not wives] and they will become one flesh [not many]." When Jesus is asked about marriage, He confirms this understanding of the original plan in Mark 10:1-12, along with Matthew 19:1-12. Speaking on divorce, Jesus noted that it was not part of the plan for marriage, but because of the hardness of man's heart. It appears evident that God promoted monogamy, not polygamy. Simply because we find polygamous relationships in Scripture does not mean that God condones it or agrees with it. In fact, we find recorded cases of lying, murder, as well as rape, but God certainly does not condone those.

Rick's comment: Bonnie, how did you miss this? Jehovah God Himself affirmed polygamy through His prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

At the point in time when Jehovah gave additional wives into David's bosom, David already had at least seven wives whose names are given: Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, 2 Samuel 3:2-5, Michal, v. 13.

Because God affirmed polygamy, that is clear testimony from God that He does not agree with your opinion that one man with one woman is the only marriage relationship God will bless.

Polygamy in the Bible was a Biblical family value first mentioned in Genesis 4:19. Some but not all ancient Biblical heroes lived in polygamous marriages and yet still enjoyed the blessing grace and mercy of a loving God.

At least two of the human authors of the Bible, David and Solomon, were living in polygamous marriages when they wrote part of the Bible, Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes.

Some Christians believe that Moses, the human author of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, also lived in a polygamous marriage with two women. Scripture tells us Moses had two wives, Zipporah, mentioned in Ex 2:15-16-21 and 18:1-6, and an Ethiopian wife mentioned in Numbers 12:1-15.

Moses' first wife may have died before Moses married his second wife yet the Bible does not make that clear one way or the other. We do know that God led Moses to make legal provision for polygamy in Jewish law by mandating inheritance rights when a man was married to more than one wife, Deut 21:15-17.

Nov 21, 2012
Amy and Daniel
by: Anonymous

Everyone needs to calm down. I mean get over yourselves Amy and Daniel. You two are bible beaters. I too read and i have a question. Have you ever lied? That's sin. Have you ever stolen anything as simple as a pencil or pen?

Nov 22, 2012
hi anonymous
by: amy

That's the first time I've been called a Bible beater. lol. Yes, I have sinned. If you read any of the entires without being emotional you would know I am also gay. I stole a candy bar when I was a kid, and as a young adult I was lost, and running the wrong way and stole some clothes from a store.

I have also lied but I can't remember them all. I cheated on someone once in a relationship. I would go on but it's a little difficult to remember the countless sins in my life and my heart.

Bible beater seems to be an emotional catch all that people say when they're mad. However the author of this site also believes the Bible to be the infallible word of God, for which we agree. Those entries are legitimate questions, not attacks. I considered the answers to also be legitimate answers and not attacks. I think maybe you should examine your own heart, dude.

Dec 19, 2012
To Anti-Gays - Why bother?
by: Leviathan

All arguments here are pointless. You aren't swaying anyone over. You actually spent time and research on an online forum, arguing with someone you can't win against. You have to stop now, Matthew 7:6.

Homosexuality is observed (even largely) in species from monkeys to dolphins.

P.S.: Direct translation of the Bible shows very little against gays and next to nothing about lesbians.

P.P.S.: This took me 2 minutes to type.

Dec 30, 2012
by: eryk gee

why are you fighting what you know !
Jesus did not have to define marriage
between a man and a woman.
He spoke long before that,
so please read your Torah,or Bible
if you know what a commandment is
them explain this one,


let me know how two of the same gender can do it.

Rick's comment: eryk gee - I'm going to ask you to do something you've apparently never done before - THINK! When God said: Be fruitful and multiply" to Adam and Eve, there were two people on earth. Today there are 7 billion people on earth.

If I need to explain to you why that command has already been obeyed, that indicates you are not thinking.

Jan 06, 2013
Sodom and Gomorrah
by: Greg

Why did God destroy these places? Why is it that when the homosexual men of that city came to the door of Lots house demanding that the Angels that were there be brought out for them, Lot refused and offered his daughters instead and stated "Thats what they were created for."

Rick's comment: 1. The Bible NEVER says anyone in Sodom was homosexual. You're just making things up. 2. Lot never said of his daughters: "That's what they were created for." Again, you're just making things up.

What is it about truth that you don't like? Wouldn't it be more honest to believe what the Bible says in context?

I personally dislike or hate gays, lesbians or anyone to be honest, but Sir there is no way you can justify this sin. When God created the world, he created it in perfection. Am I correct? If what you believe is true, then after God created Adam he should have then created another man along with the woman and gave him the option to choose one. But he didn't He created a MAN and then created a WOMAN for that man. God dont make mistakes.

Rick's comment: Your spiritual blindness is amazing. You managed to ignore everything I wrote so that you wouldn't have to think about it, let alone deal with it. Then you lied about the Sodom story in Genesis 19 in your attempt to make it support your prejudices.

Why do you refuse to deal honestly with what the Bible says in context? Do you believe God is pleased with your lies?

Jan 06, 2013
Physician heal thyself
by: Sardent

"Why do you refuse to deal honestly with what the Bible says in context? Do you believe God is pleased with your lies?" Perhaps you should answer that question yourself.

Rick's comment: One of the strangest things I've ever encountered is professing christians who lie and rip verses out of context. What kind of fantasy world are you guys living in?

Can you find the word homosexual anywhere in the Bible where Sodom is mentioned? No, of course not. You're teaching fairy tales because the Bible does NOT say what you wish it said.

Jan 08, 2013
To Sonjee on grace
by: Anonymous

But because of God's victory over sin, we who believe are "under grace" as Paul explains in Romans chapter 6. But what does that entail? Well, it entails being ruled by grace. Grace reigns over us. "Sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace" (6:14). Sin does not master us because grace masters us.

And what is the character of grace's reign in the Christian life? Grace reigns through righteousness. When grace vanquishes sin, it establishes the reign of righteousness throughout the realm until eternal life is consummated. That's why grace and license are incompatible. License reigns through lust and sin and death. But we've been freed from that. We've died to the law and died to sin. We are each day to "count ourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus" (6:11). Did you begin today considering yourself dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus? The benefit of that mental application is we no longer allow sin to reign in our mortal bodies by obeying its evil desires (6:12). Grace and license are incompatible because grace reigns through righteousness.

Perhaps that's the point we most often misunderstand. Perhaps that's why so many allusions to grace look to us like sly winks at sin. Have you heard Christians respond to the correct application of scriptural command with, "But we're not under law but under grace"? Have you ever heard Christians oppose the biblical practice of corrective discipline by appealing to "grace"? From time to time, we hear Christians offering a soothing palliative to an unrepentant sinner, leaving them in their sins by saying in so many words, "it's okay because it's all about grace anyway." Sounds suspiciously like the hardened unbeliever who proclaims God must forgive him his sins because "that's what God does."

Rick's comment: I agree with Pastor Thabiti Anyabwile on grace and not license, whom you've quoted here. For me, the problem is that neither you nor Pastor Anyabwile will deal with what the Bible says in context. Instead, as you do here, you subtly imply that since we disagree on the gay issue, we must be either unsaved (like the hardened unbeliever) or we must be using grace as a shield for our "sin" of defending being gay and Christian. Your refusal to deal with what the Bible says in context in the clobber passages is as troubling as your false accusations against us. We ARE saved and you ARE wrong.

Jan 08, 2013
To Sonjee on grace, cont.
by: Anonymous

What's wrong with many of these statements? Somehow they divorce the idea of grace from its reign through righteousness. They forget that "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It (saving grace) teaches us to say ‘No' to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good" (Titus 2:11-14). Grace teaches us righteousness. Grace teaches us to "just say ‘no'". Positively, grace instructs us in self-control, uprightness, and godliness-even in an age of lawlessness and darkness. Grace becomes for us a purifying agency, and creates in us a strong inclination to do good. Grace reigns in the Christian life, but it does so through the inculcation and cultivation of righteousness.

It would profit us greatly to beware that godless teaching that "changes the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord" (Jude 4b). And we must beware of our own heart's tendency to turn grace into lawlessness, or to resort back to the law as a means of righteousness. Both are gospel denying retreats. For the true grace of God turns the lawless into the righteous and brings eternal life where the law brought death.

Rick's comment: Again you assume that you are right on the clobber passages, one of which you allude to here when you cite Jude 4b. It becomes clear by your citation that you are completely unfamiliar with what Jude says in context. Further, you are completely unfamiliar with how your fellow anti-gay believers have interpreted Jude.

If you love God's truth, it will profit you greatly to read Does Jude condemn gays?

Jan 08, 2013
To Rick
by: Anonymous

1 Samuel 2:3 “Do not keep talking so proudly or let your mouth speak such arrogance, for the Lord is a God who knows, and by him deeds are weighed."

You my friend at no avail have totally tried to change the bible to work for your wicked ways. It is also not rocket science to see that two men or two women do not fit because God did not make them to fit. We are all born with free will to sin or not. You need to stop trying to argue something that is wrong and evil in God's eyes. It is your choice to continue down this sinful road but stop trying to make it okay it is NOT!!

I pray that God puts you on the right path, because right now you have strayed way off.

Rick's comment: In these last three comments you have made Anonymous and false accusations (indicating lack of courage to put your name with your lies) while refusing to discuss what the Bible says in context in the clobber passages. And you have steadfastly refused to deal with anything I wrote in the post which started this thread.

You are more interested in pushing your opinion than you are in what the Bible says in context. No problem. I get it. I encourage you to trust God enough to believe that He put scripture in context so that folks like you, with an agenda, would eventually be forced to acknowledge context and get right with God.

Do you have the courage to keep studying? Do you have the courage to admit the context, which some of your Gospel Coalition friends have already admitted? I hope you have that kind of Christian courage Mr/Ms Anonymous.

Jan 12, 2013
To Rick
by: Anonymous

You appear to think you are correct in everything you write and have on everyone who has stated something from the Bible you oppose to be wrong no matter what. My opinion does not matter nor does yours. You can continue changing things to make it seem like the Bible and God don't have a problem with homosexuality if that makes you feel better about yourself but God with make the ultimate judgement. God talks a lot about false teachers and you are a prime example. Again two men don't fit and two women don't fit clearly not rocket science nor can you procreate. God made us the way we are for a reason and your lifestyle is not what he intended no matter how much garbage you spew. I hope one day God will speak to your heart and show you just how misguided you are. Have a nice life.

Rick's comment: Your Anonymous self-righteousness is competing with your ignorance of scripture rightly divided. Will you ever study enough to present a scriptural argument to support your views? Probably not. This week please read, memorize and obey 2 Timothy 2:15. That is your #1 task.

Jan 14, 2013
You will answer to God for deceiving people
by: niki34

YES HE DID!!! For the simple fact Christ is indeed the God of the OT made flesh john 1:1.to all my fellow Christians posting on this site,stop wasting your time,rick does not consider homosexuality a sin so therein lies the problem.I could not phantom standing before a Holy and Righteous God telling him that he is wrong on what he considers to be sin,I'm a dirty rotten sinner like anyone else but I will NOT justify my sinful behavior.rick you will have alot of ppl blood on your hands,you twist the Scriptures to your own destruction & you hide the truth of God's word from ppl.you comfort other gays & lie to them by making them think there is no punishment for their sinful lifestyle.God have mercy on your soul.

Rick's comment: Niki34,God has already had mercy on my soul when He saved me by His grace. Your histrionic diatribe will only convince low-information christians who refuse to study the Bible. Those of us who study do not go on emotions. We deal with facts and with scripture rightly divided.

Jan 14, 2013
to other so-called christians
by: niki34

To other so-called Christians who claim to be heterosexual but attack other Christians for their stance on homosexuality because they will NOT compromise when it comes to God's word,you need to reevaluate your walk with The Most High because just cause the times have changed does not mean he has nor what he has said to be sin,he's the same yesterday today forever.

Christians are suppose to use righteous judgement,not a hypocritical one.Paul said "know ye not that we will judge angels?" But we are NOT to judge unbelievers for God has already judged them,but those claiming to be in the faith we are to judge.

Rick I love u so much brother but Christ loves u more,renounce homosexuality & turn it over to Christ brother.by his stripes we r healed.

Rick's comment: I get that a lot Niki34, the I love you but... It is time to study the Bible and ancient history. It is time to take off the blinders, open your eyes and see what your false teaching is doing to your gay brothers and lesbian sisters.

May I humbly suggest, you need to renounce your false teaching about gays and embrace the truth of scripture rightly divided? I hope you will do that soon.

Jan 15, 2013
To Rick
by: Anonymous

You are an idiot! I feel very sorry for you. May God work in your heart and make you see you are wrong. God Bless.

Rick's comment: Thanks for letting me know. Why do you feel like you know what you're talking about on the gay issue without bothering to study the Bible in context? Why do you lack the courage to put your real name with your insult?

Jesus breaks the power of cancelled sin;

He sets the prisoner free.

His blood can make the foulest clean.

His blood availed for me.

Jan 18, 2013
by: Doug

To adhere to a homosexual lifestyle is to say that God intended for your biological makeup to contradict your mind & will. If you're a homosexual Christian then please repent of your sin and abstain from your lifestyle.

Rick's comment: I see how your illogic works.

1. Ignore everything the Bible says in context in Matthew 19.

2. Take Jesus words to heterosexual Jewish men about their sinful heterosexual divorce practices and re-interpret them as if Jesus condemned gay marriage.

3. Insist that your out of context verse twisting is the only valid way of interpreting Matthew 19:3-12.

4. Then condemn gay Christians who disagree with your dishonest tactics.

Might be wise to repent of your verse twisting and begin to deal honestly with what the Bible says in context. How about it Doug? Are you man enough to do that?

Jan 22, 2013
get real Rick and get some deliverance
by: Anonymous

Ok Rick, here’s the bottom line truth on homosexuality. Yes, people can be born gay. And yes homosexuality is a sin, big time. This is what many people don’t understand. The Bible is a spiritual book. It teaches on the interaction between man and the spiritual world. In that spiritual world which is more real than the natural word because it existed first, there are spiritual beings. Some are good and some are evil. The Bible refers to them as demons. Demons can cause sicknesses to come upon a human’s body, they can cause accidents and they can influence the mind. They also enforce curses. Everyone absolutely everyone has some demons in them. One of the ways they influence the mind is to have someone be attracted to a person of the same gender. Get rid of the gay demons in the person and they will no longer be attracted to someone of the same sex. But that person has to have a desire to be free of their gay demons. Like I said everyone has some type of demon in them. It just so happens that 5 to 10 % of people have gay demons in them.

Rick's comment: You poor confused thing. If you have demons in you, then you are not saved. There is no instance anywhere in the Bible where demons were ever cast out of a born again Christian. You need to read and heed this helpful article on the Holy Spirit.

And this article will help you discover honest doctrinal truth about the religious scam artists and their deliverance ministries.

And there is no where in the Bible where it says "compatible partner". You are making stuff up Rick. And there is no way , one can be gay and be a Christian. The homosexuals act is perversion at it's highest degree. Always has been, always will be, no matter what lie you migh try to protray. Get some deliverance Rick.

Oh, yes did you know Rick that Jesus once used a derogatory word for a gay person? In Luke 13 he calls Herod Antipas a fox. If you do some studying you’ll realize he was basically calling him a sissy.

Jan 23, 2013
by: sonjee

Ok, well I do believe that there are saved homosexual people. Now here is my problem with the notion that gay people have to first want to be changed. Now I hope we can all agree that there is only one that can change us, that's the savior, Jesus! We do not have the power to change ourselves. Now how can he change us except he be in us. Now for that gay person to change, they have to first have the changer within. So Jesus must first come into a person to change the person. I do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I also believe that his grace is sufficient.

Rick's comment: Since you believe that homosexuality is sin, you must have some verses which, in context, say that. Yet you've presented no verses which, in context, say that.

I believe that the father is very upset at how his children are being treated. I find it interesting that God will save the adulterer, drunkard, fornicator, liar, accuser of the brethren, everyone except the person that is gay. unless they want to stop, they are damned. That is not biblical.

The biggest issue is that with most people their sins are ever before the lord, with gay people, their sins are forever before man! Lord how dangerous. Man will condemn you to death but thank god for Jesus, man is not my savior. The father will deal with all of his wayward children, that's everyone of us.

Those that are gay and those that are not. Those that cheat, beat their wives, molest children, backbiters and accusers, all will be dealt with by him. We do not fear damnation but we do face destruction because of sin.

Jan 23, 2013
Too much judging
by: Jennifer Janee' Travelstead

believe what you want as far as scripture, and what man made it say, they were all human that wrote it! none of gods words are in print from god? does that not bother you who wish to point out mans version of gods words?

Rick's comment: "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16

I mean really, cave mans version of dinner, isnt exact too politically correct now is it? I so hope that every individual who runs past this, is a person who is on a search away from believers and none believers to their own personal relationship with God.

Personally, I can confess that my conscious is what i rely on for god to tell me what i am doing is wrong, even when i have doubted myself due to pre-conditioning.

I live my life in peace, knowing what I am doing in my bedroom is sacred. No we do not and cannot reproduce, who are you? who am I, and should i judge anyone? who is responsible for sin are we to still handle all of the godly affairs? must we still burn innocent women for being witches for being alone? or gifted in a world that believes in physics? please my people do not waste your time in judging what happens in someones bedroom!

gay people are not all the same, just as white or black or veggies are not the same but we do wish to cross them for sake of taste? people take your opinions and put them in your pocket! life is to live and love, as many people as you possibly can fit in, in a day!

I am a lesbian, but that sexually defines me, what about the rest of the person? and anyway why do you care what happens in my bedroom unless you are one of those priest in the palace who cut boys balls off so they look more like a girl so you dont feel like judging yourself for homosexuality?

Jan 23, 2013
former gay
by: Michael Riley

sonjee, I believe that once a person comes to Jesus and receives deliverance from homosexuality spirits, they are no longer gay. They are former homesexuals who are walking in the freedom of the love Christ.

and for your infomation animals can have gay spirits in them also. Evil spirits prefer to inhabit human bodies, but if they can't find a human body they will enter the body of an animal.

Rick's comment: Michael, you are a seriously confused guy with a seriously confused anti-gay agenda. Exodus International admits that 99.9% of the people who have endured their ministry do not change their sexual orientation. John Smid admits that in 23 years of ex-gay work, he never saw anyone change their sexual orientation.

Are you Michael Riley of Church of the Open Door in San Rafael? Why are you pushing the false teaching of deliverance ministries? I notice you never present any verses which, in context, say what you believe on these issues. That is why we reject your teaching, because it is your opinion, without any support from the Bible in context.

Jan 23, 2013
by: Anonymous

I do believe that spirits can inhabit animals. You are not telling me anything new. Yes, I to was with a woman for 10 years. Now because I am no longer in the relationship should I judge my brothers and sisters for being in one, no! Yes, we SHOULD stop doing some of the things that we were doing before we got saved but guess what, we are flesh and we continue to sin. I get discussed with people that were at one time gay and now have been delivered and they take to condemning their sisters and brothers who are dealing with the same issues. Some people get saved and are delivered from lying, adultry, addiction, lust demons, and then, some are not. They are just as saved as those that were delivered. There is no level of salvation from hell. Saved is saves.

So just because you were delivered dont condemn your brothers and sisters who are still dealing with things, no matter what they are. Just pray, Pray for them and just that our fathers love will abide. Now yes, i beleive its a sin. I was indulging in the sinful relationship but guess what.

Rick's comment: Don't be fooled by people who profess to have been delivered from homosexuality. Even the anti-gay experts say they've never seen anyone change from gay to straight. Some folks make a living off continuing the lie. Others stubbornly cling to the lie because they are too lazy to study and interpret scripture in context.

I may not be in that but Im in some type of sin. Trust me! We all are!! We will be til the day the father calls us home. We are his sinful children. let him deal with his children.

Jan 23, 2013
by: sonjee

Now here is what I believe. I look at what we as believes have done to one another. We have become the accusers. That is so dangerous. Its like an autoimmune disease. The body is suffering because of itself! Something has lodged itself within some tissue of the body and the body, because its trying to rid itself of the intrusion, has become its worst enemy!

Because many feel that they are right to attack the gay believer they are no better than the autoimmune disease that is making the whole body sick! Just think about it. If you feel the person is wrong for loving someone of the same sex does that give you the right to attack them, no! The master physician will heal the body, he is the only one. The only thing the immune system can do is make the body sicker. So stop it! Brothers and sisters stop it or we end up with children killing themselves. Cousins, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, and friends are killing themselves because of accusers.

Demonic influences like lady gaga calling some of our brothers monsters, her little monsters and they accept it because she is making them feel loved! That is crazy and sad. I want you all to know that I love you! I don't care what ANYONE says to you about your salvation, you take it to Jesus in prayer. Tell him what you are struggling with and if you NEVER come out of this just know that Jesus loves you just as much as he loves any of us. You may be struggling with your sin, so is EVERYONE ELSE. Just admit we are sinners that's why we have Jesus. What is so damning in saying that homosexuality is a sin?

Rick's comment: The Bible in context never says that. The context of all the clobber passages is temple prostitution and temple prostitutes, not two men or two women falling in love and getting married. There is no reason to accept the false interpretation of the anti-gay crowd.

My watching certain movies or listening to certain music is a sin, I'm a sinner thank god i'm saved by grace! We ARE ALL SINNERS, HAVING TO BE DELIVERED FROM SOMETHING. IT WILL BE THAT WAY TIL THE DAY WE DIE.

I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. we MUST come together because the world is coming together against us! trust that! We are hated and cannot afford to hate on each other.

Jan 24, 2013
Temple prostitution
by: amy

Regarding the temple prostitution reference. As always, the Bible is referencing sinful behavior (not just homosexuality) that was related to the temple prostitution.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful..."

The Bible is pointing out sin. Regardless of whether this sin was motivated by worshiping idols, it is still recognized as sin. Being "untrustworthy" is no less a sin, whether I am a saved christian or worshiping idols. The idea is, the saved, and people who know the Lord, will avoid these behaviors.

Rick's comment: That is a not so ingenious way of ignoring context Amy. As I understand it, you are saying: I agree that the context is idol worship. But I assert that gays in loving committed relationship are doing essentially the same thing as idol worshipers even though they are not idol worshipers, therefore gay is wrong and sinful, yada yada yada.

I do not view that approach as hermeneutically sound. It is misguided because it takes scripture out of context and misapplies it in ways God never intended. If I've misunderstood your views, please let me know.

Jan 26, 2013
by: Anonymous

sadom and gamaro the lord burned down a city because of homosexuality.

Rick's comment: No, your information is entirely wrong. Even anti-gay Christian scholars admit that your view is incorrect. Check out the facts on our Sodom page.

Jan 28, 2013
by: Rachel

While I understand your use of Polygamy as an exception to the rule, I think it is a poor argument. Polygamy was only practiced in small parts of palestinian jewish society, not widely in the roman/greek world. Jesus clearly states in the NT that in fact polygamy is not acceptable.

"Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (NIV Matt 19.8-9, pp. Mark 10.1-12)

Rick's comment: Hi Rachel. It seems you have missed the point of the polygamy argument and the actual question Jesus was asked. First, if there are ANY exceptions to absolute complementarianism (like polygamy), then we know that absolute complementarianism is not God's viewpoint.

Second, heterosexual Jewish men living under the law in the land of Israel before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, asked Jesus about the divorce practices of heterosexual Jews. No one was asking Jesus about gay marriage.

Third, to rip Jesus' answer to those heterosexual Jewish men out of its heterosexual context and insist that Jesus was making any kind of negative statement about gay marriage is far afield from anything Jesus said in context. I have no doubt that you agree with me on that.

Did you even bother to read the article which began this comment section? No one who heard Jesus speak in Matthew 19 would hold your view on the issue of polygamy. If they had believed like you think they believed, there would have been no need for the Holy Spirit and Paul, some 33 years later, to point out that a bishop and a deacon must be in monogamous marriages, that polygamy is not allowed for them.

I encourage you to re-read the article more carefully, look up the verses and give it more serious thought. Many thanks for stopping by and for having the courage to use your name instead of commenting anonymously.

Feb 06, 2013
dont be mislead
by: Anonymous

God created a man and a woman n you should know that marriages is clearly defined. if you think that gay is ok then you should be thinking that you are evolved from apes not from God intelligent design.

you must read the bible and interpreting the bible according to the context of the bible. Because of sin God floated the earth. Gays practices is an abomination. n killing innocent babies is a sin.

Rick's comment: Okay, I see how that works. Ignore every verse I gave. Ignore the historically accurate context of the verses. And then restate your erroneous opinion without any logic, without any reason to back it up. Now I understand.

Feb 20, 2013
The Holy Christian Bible vs The Human Rights Of The GLBT Community
by: ABratt's PerspectivesThe

"Even John Shelby Spong admitted homosexuality cannot be defended from Scripture."

If I was gay, I would not fight for my rights against a Book and its accompanying dogma that is already stacked against me. The key word to the existence of the Book/Christianity is Procreation, not Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself or any of that nonsense.

Rick's comment: Jesus takes the witness stand to disagree with you.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Matthew 22:37-39

The elite of the Founding Fathers made certain that Christianity and its errant Bible were in no way the law of the American government they so very carefully founded. And that was because they, inside their own hearts and minds, were suspicious of a religion based on superstition! They were Deists, not Bible Thumping Christian Fundamentalists like so many Christians of this day.They believed in the GOD OF NATURE--LITERALLY-- NATURE! NATURALISM!

Again, if I was Gay, I would fight for my rights based on the secular style American Government the founders designed. Let your fight be predicated on American Made Human Rights, not on revising errant, contradictory Christian teachings that are being exposed to the world every single day. The credibility of Christianity and the Holy Bible is on the decline!

Rick's comment: I encourage you to complete this FREE Bible study: Jesus teaches Hell 101 and to take the Are you a good person? test. Many thanks for stopping by.

Feb 20, 2013
January 24th response I missed
by: amy

Rick - My apologies, I missed your response, and just saw it as I was reading the latest entry. Yes, you continue to "misunderstand." Yes, I am aware of the idol worship issue, and the depravity involved. I learned of this context twenty years ago, when I first began studying the Bible regarding homosexuality. This is old news and not a disagreeable issue as far as I know; from either side of the "camp."

So to answer your question yes, I agree with that, and I believe I have pointed that out countless times in our exchanges. There is a lot of sin the Bible references in Romans 1, besides same sex sex.

Rick's comment:There you go again Amy. You assert your view as if it is fact without ANY supporting evidence. You've already stipulated that the context is temple prostitution, a fact you say you've believed for 20 years.

While the Bible is taking this opportunity to point out the unnaturalness of same sex sex, it is not the only focus. One of the other many sins mentioned is greed. I know saved Christians who are greedy. Do I think they aren't saved because they are greedy? No, of course I think they are indeed saved. However I recognize sin as sin.

We are saved and hope to grow in righteousness, and God doesn't give us over to our sin. Good news!! However it does not change the fact that greed is sin. Based on your logic, as long as you're saved, and not worshiping idols and not entirely rejecting the one true God, then the same sin that God references in Romans 1, is ok.

Rick's comment: No Amy. You're making up a straw man argument which I've never made and attempting to saddle me with your false and illogical argument.

You have to apply the same logic to the same sex reference as you do to the issue of greed, slander, and so on. The point is, these are sins as the Bible points out. They are not ok. While the context is idol worship and completely rejecting God to the point that God gives you over, doesn't negate the fact that they are sins, and the saved christian would be wise to avoid them.

Rick's comment: The sin at issue is temple prostitution, not two gay guys or two gay gals.

In the context of Romans 1, God gives them over. This is serious business of unsaved people and they are so depraved God gives them over. That's bad. That's serious. And that is a different issue. A different issue that doesn't change the fact that greed, slander, and gossip are still sinful, nonetheless.

Rick's comment: God gave them over because of idolatry Amy, not because they were gay.

Feb 20, 2013
missed response January 24th
by: amy

As for pointing out that my comment is "not so ingenious" I am going to say that is rude, and implies something that you know, or should know by now from our exchanges, is simply not true. I am in no way trying to be clever. If I was capable of being insulted that would be insulting. However it doesn't matter because my heart knows the truth. If yours doesn't by now, I would examine it.

Adding the verses we are referencing in this discussion:

"26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Rick's comment: Amy, your response is not so ingenious because you present no argument to support your belief. You simply assert your opinion without any context from culture, history, linguistics or religion to support it.

You also employ the "Yes but..." argument in which you agree that the context is temple prostitution. Then you say in essence, Yes but I also think it's talking about homosexuality in general...

Anyway, these comments are off-topic and should be about the topic, Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman? Let's focus on that in all future comments here.

Feb 24, 2013
Marriage Defined by Jesus
by: Jeff

Matthew 19:4-6 NKJV. “And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

Rick's comment: I'm not sure what your point is Jeff, since I quoted Matthew 19:4-7 to start the discussion. I hope you will read and think more deeply on this. Many thanks.

Feb 25, 2013
To all
by: Anonymous

Again people stop trying to discuss this with Rick. No matter what only he understands the scripture. At least in his own little world. He is gay and proud and certainly will face hell.

Rick's comment: How about dealing with facts? How about interpreting scripture in context? How about performing due diligence so that you know what you're talking about? Is that too much to ask?

Snarky comments that I am going to hell because we disagree on the issue of homosexuality indicate childish immaturity. If you had truth on your side, you could discuss the issues without resorting to such foolishness.

Feb 25, 2013
by: Anonymous

Saved by grace is not a green light to continue in sin. You are to leave your old life for that which is new. You will burn in hell if you continue Rick.

You seem to think only you are aware of what the Bible says yet you my friend only twist things to fit you wicked lifestyle. God loves the sinner hates the sin. Stop twisting scripture because in the end it won't help you when you stand before God.

If I were you I would really wonder if in fact giving that you still think your way is right over that which God has made abundantly clear that your name is in the book of life.

Rick's comment: Oh, that's just peachy! Because we disagree, you accuse me of not being saved. Your ability to think clearly hasn't progressed past second grade play ground logic. Thanks for stopping by. You might want to try ginko biloba to stimulate clear thinking.

Feb 25, 2013
Sinful Lifestyle
by: Michael Riley

Give it up Rick or give it up the demon that is controling you. If you say your are a Christian, that means you believe in God and Bible. If you believe in the Bible that means you believe in angels and some angels are fallen angels, in other words demons. And one type of demon is the spirit of homosexuality. So Rick do you want to get that evil spirit of homosexuality out of you? I can help you get rid of it over the internet.

Rick's comment: Wow, you con artists seem to rant in cycles. First it was, You're not saved because you disagree with us on the gay issue.

Now it has morphed into, You have demons because you disagree with us on the gay issue.

Do ANY of you intend to study the Bible in context at some point in your life? Do ANY of you even care what the Bible says in context? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

You may benefit greatly from reading and believing: Are deliverance ministries scriptural? That page exposes and debunks unspiritual protection rackets which purport to cast demons out of saved people.

Feb 26, 2013
by: Anonymous

Like I said before everyone needs to leave poor little Rick alone. He is on his way to hell and can only blame himself for being a excuse maker for continuing in his sin.

Rick if you were truly saved you would leave your old life of sin for a new one. Grace is not a green light to continue in sin. Admit it if saved you would have a conviction of the sin you are committing.

Yes we will fall on occasion but to just think you can continue in your sin because of grace means you don't understand truly the sacrifice that Jesus did on the cross for you. The only thing you are showing Jesus is just how little it truly means to you. The way of the world is so much better in your eyes obviously.

Rick's comment: Wow! How easy it is to falsely accuse a blood-bought fellow Christian when you hide behind Anonymity. I encourage you to carefully read my five part series, Justification by faith. Many thanks.

Feb 26, 2013
by: Anonymous

No thanks, false teaching not interested.

Rick's comment: Why am I not surprised?

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." - Proverbs 18:13

Mar 01, 2013
The Bible sets precedent only for male-female marriage
by: Chris Robinson

The universe itself has been established and is upheld by laws, laws that should be considered verifiable evidence that some higher power has established these laws, for if not, how did these laws all come into existence? Are we to believe that the universe just happened to spontaneously create itself, and then established all the laws that govern its very existence?

So all of Creation is set and guided by laws that Christ has set forth. In Gen God states: “The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

Of course God created woman for the man, this is the what the Lord chose. "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.”

So here in the very beginning of man’s odyssey, Christ the purveyor of universal law, lays out the system of marriage. He is SHOWING humanity just how this system of “FAMILY” is going to work. Christ is setting legal precedent by creating this order of family and the institution of marriage between Adam and Eve, man and woman.

Rick's comment: Hi Chris - interesting that you open with a quote from your screen play and film, Jackson's Run.

The view you assert is known as absolute complementarity, i.e., the belief that God will only bless a one man with one woman marriage; that in Genesis 2:24 God intended to prescribe the only marriage situation He will bless and to proscribe ALL other possible marriage situations.

The problem with that view is that (1) the Bible never says that, (2) no human author of the Bible says that and (3) the Bible never even implies that and (4) the Bible makes clear that polygamy is affirmed, blessed and Godly, Deu 21:15-17, 2 Samuel 12:7-8 and 2 Chronicles 23:2-3. Absolute complementarianism is a man-made view which is read into the Bible (because the Bible never says it) but it is usually taught AS IF the Bible says it.

Folks who think logically on other issues seem to throw their mind out of gear on the issue of marriage. Their emotions and their preconceptions (regardless how lacking in biblical support), seem to overwhelm their capacity for logical thought.

I encourage you to read my information on Adam and Eve and the links to additional information. One can and should reject absolute complementarianism while retaining conservative biblical views based on what the Bible actually says and not what it is presumed to teach. Hope this is helpful Chris.

Mar 20, 2013
Homosexuality is wrong
by: AnonymousCharlie

The bible is quite plain on showing marriage is between a man and a woman. Romans chapter one can't be any clearer, as well as other scriptures. Scriptures showing that those who are sexually immoral will not inherit God's kingdom.

Those who are not called by God, and those who want the homosexual lifestyle, cannot see this truth because the scriptures also point out they are blind to the truth. It does not matter what proof anyone sets before them they will not see it.

One day they will when God calls them and opens their mind, only then will they see and only then will they make a decision to choose the truth over their blind error of beliefs. It is absolutely pointless to argue scripture with someone who refuses to see and cannot yet see the truth of those scriptures.

Pray for them, love them and leave them to God. If they want to ask you something in all sincerity because they want to know the truth, then by all means discuss it with them and show them scripture, but otherwise you are wasteing yours and their time, all they will do is argue with you wanting to hold on to their false reasoning.

Homosexuality is a filthy dirty sin and God hates it. Sodom and Gomorah and it's surrounding cities found this out the hard way when they would not repent of their wickedness. They bible points out they are examples for anyone who might follow their evil ways. Thanks be to God we can be given a new life in Christ once we see the error of our ways and repent and turn to him.

Rick's comment: I'm guessing that since you are such a blizzard of ignorance, it was probably snowing when you typed that. You sound angry and hurting, bitter and sad. I encourage you to turn from your sins and get saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. He will turn your sorrow into joy.

Mar 27, 2013
Marriage of Man and Woman
by: Anonymous

Although I am far being very educated about the Bible, I have many concerns about the justification by many to support gay marriage. It seems to me God made a man and woman with different plumbing to produce children. Two men together can not produce a child, nor two woman. Is this not why God made Adam and Eve?

Rick's comment: Genesis 2:18 tells us the original reason God made Eve for Adam, so that he would not be alone and lonely.

I believe true marriage is to bring togehter a man and woman together to produce children and each provide and protect these children until these children marry and continue the cylce of life.

Rick's comment: Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled. Yet the purpose of marriage as given in 1 Cor 7:1ff. is to avoid fornication. Gays have the same needs in that area, to avoid fornication, and gay marriage helps us do that.

Gays can and do have children. In California, there are 37,000 children being raised by gay couples.

God made everything sinful that would disrupt this life cycle such as divorce, unfaithfulness and homosexuality. The Ten Commandments are all laws meant to preserve the existance of mankind and it's survival. What I see are people trying to interpret and rewrite the Gods words to justify their sinful desires which will destroy something very sacred, the marriage of man and woman.

Rick's comment: With all due respect, you heteros are doing a first rate job of destroying marriage all by yourselves. Your horrendous divorce rates, your divorced and remarried and divorced and remarried pastors and deacons and church elders and Sunday School teachers do more to destroy the sacred institution of marriage than gays will ever do. Do you agree?

Mar 27, 2013
by: Jose

Man is created in the image of God, not the other way around. The bible are like Gods instructsion on how we are supossed to live. The bible does not condone homosexual acts. It is not that complicated, unless you are looking to justify homosexual behavior.

Rick's comment: Jose, thanks for your comment. It wouldn't hurt you at all to do some reading and study on this issue. We are gay and lesbian and bisexual and transgendered Bible believing Christians. We work hard to NOT take verses out of context because the anti-gay crowd has done that to us so much that we are tired of it.

Mar 27, 2013
lol really i don't judge
by: me me me me

what i find funny here is what does it say about casting the first stone? as i remember no sin is greater or worse than another sin. so in theory, your sins are just as bad as you say homosexuals are. And if homosexuality is so bad why are priest always being in trouble for molesting boys? you never hear them molesting a girl.

king james (which has a bible that many follow) used to publicly brag about his homosexual acts. the bible is more of a guide how to live and people take from it what they feel. if you read the bible and find hate, what does that say about your soul? and he's right when the bible was translated it wasn't done exactly right. just like translating words today from one language to another things are changed because one word in english might not use in another language.

god didn't translate the bible, man did! does the bible say man is perfect? i'm gonna tell y'all like i tell every other religious person that's sinning. when you are judge by the one true judge, i hope he takes mercy on your souls and understand it's not his sheeps fault its the hateful teaching you're taught. it's so easy for people to use the bible for hate instead of love and peace like its meant for.

Mar 29, 2013
Rick your Misleading
by: Anonymous

I can't help to comment on your discussion. you are misguided and blinded by your eagerness to be accepted. GLBT have been respected of who they are but not to the extent of accepting them to Holy Matrimony. it is clear to the text the that Jesus only mentioned MAN AND WOMAN. The question cannot weight the truth of what Jesus is saying and even you cannot redefined His words. It is Clear God Created man and woman When He said "In the beginning" He did not included GLBT because he knew the uniqueness of the two. that in the beggenning that is what God created.

Mar 29, 2013
You can't overcome the plain meaning of the text.
by: Anonymous

I know my comments will not be printed.

First, Jesus is a Hebrew man, his name is Yeshua.

Secondly, He IS the Passover Lamb and celebrated Passover, Hannukah, Feast of Tabernacles etc as those are pictures of Yeshua the Messiah.

Thirdly, When you are reading in the "Old Testament" that homosexual relationships are considered to be an abomination, you are reading Torah, and Yeshua is the Torah made flesh. The plain reading of these passages shows you that Yeshua taught, that marriage is between one man and one woman, God hates divorce and so on means what it says. He did not allow polygamy either as He said that as well.

Fourthly, Yeshua loves you and is ready to heal you, he has all the power and his work is finished, all you need to do is believe.

Fifthly, if there is anything I read here about hatred is the Hatred of Yeshua and his words, because is that not what it is all about? Not about you and me, but about eradicating all followers and knowledge of the man without sin, the passover lamb, the holy and righteous one blessed be He? I will tell you I won't ever follow your authority, your righteousness is not good enough for me. I want a relationship with the Holy One Of Israel Yeshua the Messiah.

Sixth, did you know that in the First Century, people were looking for the Lion of Judah to wipe out the oppressors, and received the Suffering Servant who died and was resurrected. And now in the last days they are looking for the kindly suffering servant, but will receive the Lion of Judah, who is warrior. Not a baby lying in a sukkah, or man nailed to a cross, but a kinsman avenger and redeemer. As for me and my house we stand for the Whole of the Torah which is the both the old and the new.

The new testament is after all a news report of the first appearance of the Messiah that was for told in the torah, prophets and the writings. And for those of us who have an education, you will NEVER be able to overcome the plain and simple meaning of the text.

Rick's comment: I agree with a lot of what you said. I am washed in the blood of the Lamb and have received Jesus as my Messiah and Savior from sin and hell.

I disagree with what you said about homosexuals. The topic in the Old Testament was temple prostitution, not two gay guys or two gay gals falling in love and building a life together as a couple.

You said God did not allow polygamy. I believe the Bible proves you wrong on that issue. God made provision in Torah, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, for inheritance rights of children in polygamous marriages.

God also affirmed polygamy as godly and honorable in 2 Samuel 12:7-8 and 2 Chronicles 24:1-2, which I hope you will take time to read and meditate upon.

I don't want you to follow my authority. I DO want you to be like the Bereans in Acts 17:11, who "searched the scriptures daily whether those things were so."

Mar 29, 2013
Quit kidding us Rick
by: Anonymous because it really does'nt matter

It is obvious now that Rick is playing some game with us. No one, and I mean no one can be as blind as Rick is letting on to be. It is not possible he can't see the plain truth of the bible that homosexuality is plain wrong, Unless of course, he does not want to see, and if he is not playing some game, then obviously he does'nt want to see the truth of God. He just wants to go on gratifying his sinful nature and therefore continues to try to make the bible say something other than it does, problem is, he even believes his own misinterpretation of scripture.

No matter what anyone tries to point out to him he will not see it, he has become blinded to the truth and therefore cannot see it. I know now we all have just been wasting our time commenting on what is plain. All you will get in return is some smart alec remark if you say something Rick does not agree with, why waste your time?

Cry out to God Rick and ask him to give you eyes to see, but first you have to want the truth as only God sees it, not as you see it. No point in smart mouthing what I am saying, but then again, that seems to be all you have left, you have ran out of other options that don't hold water. Like your favorite one of saying, read such and such in context, well, we have Rick, and you are wrong. It is you that needs to do more reading.

Rick's comment: Hide your identity so you can criticize me? Accuse me of being blind but you've presented no in context arguments to support your views. Par for the course.

I'm not holding my breath waiting for one of you spiritual saints to come up with a decent in context argument to support your views because blue is not my color.

Oh by the way, the game I am playing is: Be a Berean! Please read and memorize Acts 17:11 and do what it says. The Bible makes an amazing difference in your life if you read believe and obey it in context. Are you a noble Christian?

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Mar 31, 2013
Who shot John?
by: Jim

All I know is, there is a whole lot of who shot John on this web site. I am looking for just one verse, sentence, chapter or anywhere the Bible says it is just fine with God that two men or two women may get married. I am not saying God disapproves of gay marriage, I am just saying show me where God says it is alright with him. Make it in five words or less, that should be enough words to tell me chapter and verse.

Rick's comment: I'm not sure if you are being facetious or if you just make it a habit not to think. Perhaps this link will help you figure it out.

Is there any evidence of an actual gay marriage in the Bible?

Apr 01, 2013
Weak argument at best
by: Anonymous

Sorry but your argument is weak (aimed at Jim and Who Shot John, I believe -Rick). If the 'norm' back then were as it is today where men live and raise children with men and women with women then it would have included gays. Gays do procreate by adopting unwanted children and giving them love and raising them. A pretty holy act if you ask me. As far as your 'sinner' view, I really doubt Jesus would consider them so if their hearts are full of LOVE. Hello, broaden your heart and mind.

Rick's comment: We get far away from the truth if we try to impose our 21st century views on ancient biblical cultures 2000 to 4000 years ago. These pages may be helpful to understanding how it was back then.




Apr 03, 2013
by: Anonymous






Rick's comment: Posted exactly as we received it.

Apr 03, 2013
by: Anonymous



Rick's comment: Posted exactly as we received it.

Apr 03, 2013
by: Anonymous


Rick's comment: Posted exactly as we received it.

Apr 04, 2013
Yes Jesus did cover this topic.
by: Anonymous

Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don't do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else. (Matthew 23:1-3)


++++++ Laws of Marriage ++++++
122. To marry a wife by means of ketubah and kiddushin. Deut. 22:13

123. Not to have relations with women not thus married. Deut. 23:18

124. Not to withhold food, clothing, and relations from your wife. Ex. 21:10

125. To have children with one's wife.Gen 1:28

++++++ Laws of Divorce +++++
126. To issue a divorce by means of a "get" document. Deut. 24:1

127. A man must not remarry his wife after she has married someone else. Deut. 24:4

Some Christians say that Jesus said to obey the Ten Commandments. But He said to obey the whole Law of Moses, not just the Ten Commandments. When Jesus says "commandments", He does not mean only the Ten Commandments as many people assume.

The two greatest commandments are part of the Law of Moses, but they are not from the Ten Commandments. When Jesus said "commandments", He meant the entire Law of Moses.

Many people put the word [Ten] in front of the word commandments in the New Testament. Jesus didn't say "obey the Ten Commandments by themselves", He said to obey the entire Law of Moses.

Leviticus 18:22 Do not lie with a male [i.e. homosexuality] as you would with a woman, since this is a disgusting perversion. This is the laws of Moses.

So... To complete this argument. Yes Jesus did cover this topic. Why should Jesus have to repeat every laws God set out? He shouldn't. Follow every law. The bible is the law and should be followed to the letter.

Rick's comment: Are Christians under law? No, absolutely not. You are putting out legalistic dis-information.

Apr 05, 2013
The law
by: Amy

Rick: You've willfully missed and changed the point of the above contributor. While you may not like your critics, the point the person is making is obvious.

While you believe you are under grace, you're also aware that grace is not intended for us to go on sinning.

Loving The Lord creates in us a spirit to avoid sin, and grow into more and more avoidance of sin.

That is the point of the above contributor, as well as the belief that same sex relationship are outside of Gods order, and outside of Gods will for us. When God wants something different for us than we want for ourselves, grace is not intended to give us the green light. That is spiritual immaturity.

Rick's comment: Amy, the Anonymous commenter's point was that Jesus said we need to keep all of the law, not just the Ten Commandments. I countered with the truth that Jesus kept the law for us, as us, in our place and therefore Christians are under no obligation to keep Old Testament Jewish law.

You and some other commenters keep attacking my integrity and my motives. No matter - I'll keep telling the truth so that gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals can be set free in Jesus.

Only by pulling verses out of context and assigning a meaning to the verses which the verses do not explicitly state can you and the previous commenter arrive at the teaching that being gay is outside of God's order and will for us.

Apr 18, 2013
setting people free
by: amy

Rick: There is a distinct difference between "setting people free" as you say; that is, sharing the good news of Christ, and leading people to believe it's acceptable to stay in our sin. This is stating the obvious.

The point of the contributer was that the law is still good. That's is all he was saying. Nothing more, nothing less. It is you who try and dissuade the issue. He was not making the point that Jesus gift doesn't matter. He was making a different point entirely. One that would be obvious for one with eyes to see and ears to hear. It is you who smokescreen.

As for Jesus paying the price, then it's clearly right under your nose that we don't go on sinning because of this great and precious gift.

Some people are truly persecuted because they share the love of Jesus. Some people are confronted because they are willfully in sin.

Rick's comment: Hi Amy. I note you are still lobbing false accusations at me while defending anti-gays who rip verses out of context to condemn.

You have misunderstood the law-fixated legalistic approach of some professing Christians who want to add works to grace. I get so many emails from law+grace types (who want to add in their own works, their own righteousness) that perhaps I recognize it more easily than you. We should never allow anyone to put a yoke of bondage upon us.

It may be time to read Galatians again and remind ourselves that we are not under law, that Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness, to everyone that believeth.

Apr 18, 2013
Plain and Simple
by: Riley, Michael

Homosexuality is demonic, plain and simple. Now Rick will say there is no such thing as demons and/or deliverance. But that is the demon in him that is talking.

Rick's comment: Hi Michael, you would be a wiser man if you studied more and insulted less. As a born again, witnessing, soul-winning gay disciple of Jesus Christ, I believe in devils (KJV) yet it may surprise you to discover that no born again believer can be demon possessed or devil possessed. I explain why on my page about deliverance ministries.

Apr 18, 2013
Nothing left
by: Amy

Rick seriously: Grow up. I've been kind. Kindness doesn't mean people say what you like, nor should they. You reveal yourself. No one is picking on you. We are grown adults here and this isn't a childhood playground.

You miss the point willfully and dissuade the issue willfully. No one can unintentionally miss the point as you do, so often. People do not have to agree on an issue to understand obvious points being made, and make progress in dialogue. It's impossible with you. You have your own agenda. That is a burden. Good luck.

Rick's comment: You're still questioning my integrity while insisting you've been kind. I wish you the best but henceforth I will not post any comments from you.

Apr 18, 2013
No he did not
by: Brandon

No, he did not. However, Paul did in 1 Corinthians 7:3 He states the husband should fulfill his "marital duties" to his wife. In verse 10 he says to the "married" and he goes on to describe the interaction between a husband and wife. You could argue whether or not people (homosexuals), I prefer to call them people, have a right to marry someone of the same sex.

However, I don't understand how you can say what something is not, unless you first define what it is? and does extending the definition of marriage, assuming it is between a man and a woman, open the door to polygamy? I think someone could argue that it would be discriminatory? I think I spelled that right.

Rick's comment: Brandon, the argument Ken Silva makes is based on absolute complementarianism, the belief that God will only truly bless a one man with one woman type of marriage.

That God blessed and affirmed polygamy, Deu 21:15-17, 2 Sam 12:7-8, 2 Chron 24:2-3, proves that God is NOT an absolute complementarian because a polygamous marriage is NOT a one man with one woman type of marriage.

If absolute complementarianism is NOT God's viewpoint, then it should not be our viewpoint.

If absolute complementarianism is not Biblical, then the foundation of the anti-gay marriage argument has crumbled away and does not support their anti-gay position. That is the point of mentioning polygamy.

Most anti-gay folk have read and studied so little and are so UN-familiar with the pro and con arguments that they cannot even understand the ramifications when absolute complementarianism is debunked.

I enjoyed reading your rebuttal and you have a generous knowledge of the Bible. It was written for our benefit, knowing the word should be the priority of every believer.

Rick's comment: Thank you for your kind words. I am in complete agreement - knowing believing obeying the written word of God in context should be the priority of every believer in Jesus Christ.

May 01, 2013
doing the devil's will
by: Linda

To argue so hard with so many words about having sex?

1 John 2:16 ESV - For all that is in the world — the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions — is not from the Father but is from the world.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 ESV - Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant[e] must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Rick's comment: When I got saved the Holy Spirit fueled in me a desire for God's truth. Jesus was all about God's truth, John 17:17.

Gays and lesbians are under constant attack from professing christians who are cultural christians, i.e., they have never really been saved. We are also under attack from ignorant Christians who really are saved but are too lazy to read and study their Bible, 2 Timothy 2:15.

This website exists to answer their scurrillous attacks with scripture in context and rightly divided. Many thanks for stopping by.

May 02, 2013
Scripture speaks for itself
by: Lyn

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife I Cor. 7:3-4.

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me 1 Timothy 1:1-11.

Rick's comment: Excellent advice and absolutely true for heterosexuals. Yet for the 5% of us who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered, that passage does not address our needs.

Are you aware that the word homosexual did not become a common English word until the 1890s? Are you aware that there was not a word in the ancient Greek language with the semantic range of our modern word homosexual?

These links may be helpful in your search for truth.

Does arsenokoitai mean homosexual?


May 10, 2013
I just found the caps key
by: Soli Deo Glory


It is sad that a person so worthy to the Savior had his mind already reprobate. Please stop for a minute and study and analyse your own teology.

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:6-8.

Rick's comment: I can often tell where a commenter is doctrinally in this way.

1. Hysterical charismatics who disagree with me accuse me of being demon possessed.

2. Hysterical Calvinists who disagree with me accuse me of not being saved (reprobate). So you must be an hysterical Calvinist. Of course, with the new reformed craziness these days, you may be an hysterical charimatic Calvinist. SMH LOL.

By the way, disagreeing with each other on the issue of whether gay is okay does not equate to preaching another gospel.

I encourage you to read:

How can I get saved? and

What is justification by faith?

May 10, 2013
but I don't use the caps key all the time
by: SOLI Deo Glory

Stop labelling every single one that try to help as a anty-gay. Stop hiding your defects in the wrong doing all every bady else. We love homosexuals, but believed that Jesus is the same, yesterday, today and tomorrow, Hebrew 13: 8. Being that He is God and the same that created us from the beginning, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them ( Genesis 1:27) and it was not to have pleasure, but as it is explained in the next verse TO BE FRUITFUL, AND MULTIPLY and replenish the earth, and subdue it. DOES GOD OR JESUS MADE A MISTAKE AND HE HAS NOT CONTROL OVER HIS CREATION? IT WAS A MISTAKE THAT YOU ARE ON THAT BODY? BE VERY CAREFUL BEFORE YOU ANSWER, DUE TO AS FOR GOD, IS WAYS IS PERFECT: THE WORD OF THE LORD IS TRIED: HE IS A BUCKLER TO ALL THOSE THAT TRUST IN HIM (SALMS 18:30) I just extremely sad about all of this, have you thinking about the live that you are having? you are a woman and the body of man, but you are still a man, even though you act like one, you know that you are still man. it is sad, but if you really accept him, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Even your sexual preferences. He loves you, and just surrend to Him and In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths, Prob 3:6. In conclusion, christians love gays, they are not antigays; they just love and obey the Lord of the WHOLE WORLD. HE LOVES US ALL, JUST SURREND TO HIM FOR A MINUTE!!!!!!!!

Rick's comment: You're a bit confused kiddo, a bit confused.

May 22, 2013
no evidence
by: Anonymous

There are plenty of examples of heterosexual marriages in the Bible, yet a distinct lack of homosexual marriages. To say that homosexuality is ok just because the Bible may not say it's not is a dangerous way of thinking. Imagine if the federal government chose to do what they wanted on the basis of the Constitution not saying they can't do something. Just thought I might point out that flaw in logic.

Rick's comment: That would be an excellent point IF that was my logic. How odd that almost to a man, all of you Anonymous commenters ignore what I've written, do not even try to answer the question biblically and then, conclude I am wrong. Can anyone say, low information christian?

May 23, 2013
female is made for male alone
by: Anonymous

Some persons just argue what they don't know, from the beginning a woman was made out of man in other for them to be reunite to become one Gen 2:21-25.even common sense will tell yoou that man to man are not compact able. know the truth and let the truth set you free.love God

May 23, 2013
by: amy

I continue to wonder about those who remain anonymous? This has been addressed with no answer. Why do you that comment, and seem to feel so strongly in your conviction, choose to remain anonymous?

In my opinion, you look ridiculous and can't be trusted. I challenge any "anonymous" "christian" to give a good solid explanation for this.

Rick's comment: Amen to that Amy!

May 23, 2013
by: Anonymous

Suggesting Jesus was a supporter of homosexual marriage is not a controversial position, it is the position of an insane person, someone who is missing any balanced intellectual sense of process or mental structure. You can dismiss Jesus but only an insane idiot would turn Jesus' words into this.

Rick's comment: Oh goody, another insulting gem from the pearl-clutching parade of low information christians who, oddly enough, are afraid to associate their name with their beliefs. Please be careful dismounting from your high horse.

May 25, 2013
Same Sex Relationship
by: Paul

Though scientific research shows that there is evidence of sexual relations between same sex in animals, I think it is irrational to compare us humans (capable of reasoning) with animals in justifying a same sex relationship.

Rick's comment: Of course, I do not make that comparison on this website.

A sexual intercourse between same sex will not be able to produce an offspring, you can absolutely take that in the biblical context in contrast to technology today. Remember the tower of Babel? With humans wanting to reach God with their technology, what happened? That story is in the bible as a reminder for us.

Sure, same sex couples could adopt a child but that could affect the child psychologically in the long run. What will you teach the child when he begins asking questions about his parents? What happens to that child growing up in such environment?

Rick's comment: They turn out as normal as children raised by opposite sex parents.

What happens to same sex couples that are married? Their "true" family is only composed of two; They can't really have an offspring where they can really call their own, how sad is that?

Rick's comment: Lots of gay couples have biological offspring; others have adopted children.

God does not condemn gays, what God condemn are gays that perverse sexual matters like having intercourse with the same sex. The bible even condemn cross-dressing (look it up in the New Testament).

Rick's comment: Hey Paul, please click on the cross-dressing text link for helpful info.

I don't need to memorize verses in the bible, I only need to be knowledgeable of its content.

There are decent gays who stands by what the bible teaches. It is alright to have a relationship with the same sex as long as you do not go overboard like cross-dressing, or anything lustful.

Rick's comment: I hope you will do a lot more reading and study Paul. Your conclusions are flawed.

May 26, 2013
Where do you get this passage from?
by: Anonymous

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner." Which bible edition says ORIENTATION COMPATIBLE PARTNER?

Rick's comment: The verse you cite is 1 Cor 7:2. Every Christian I know believes that it means, heterosexual men should have a female partner or, heterosexuals should have a partner matching their sexual orientation.

My paraphrase simply points out that truth for those of us who are not heterosexual, that we too should have an orientation compatible partner.

You seem to disagree.

Are you of the belief that heterosexuals should have an orientation compatible partner - someone matching their sexual orientation - but gays should not have an orientation compatible partner - someone matching our sexual orientation?

May 27, 2013
Once again which version?
by: Anonymous

My question was which Bible version uses the word orientation in 1 Corinthians 7:2 and suggests other than man and woman?

Rick's comment: My answer pointed out that the word, orientation, is my paraphrase. These links explain my thinking.

About 1 Cor 7:2

Is sex in a committed relationship sinful?

May 27, 2013
To amy and rick
by: Anonymous

May 23, 2013
by: amy

I continue to wonder about those who remain anonymous? This has been addressed with no answer. Why do you that comment, and seem to feel so strongly in your conviction, choose to remain anonymous?

In my opinion, you look ridiculous and can't be trusted. I challenge any "anonymous" "christian" to give a good solid explanation for this.

Rick's comment: Amen to that Amy!

To amy and rick - because "your name is optional" per the way the comment section is set up. How do people know you are really amy or rick? How do people know your names aren't fictitious e.g. anonymous? I pose this question with rick in it for his enthusiastic response to your comment. If you believe in this so strongly rick, since its your site, why don't you delete the anonymous option? Is the log out of your eyes that you can judge ones anonymity? Just stick to the merits of the argument.

Rick's comment: You can't fix stupid, even with duct tape.

Jun 01, 2013
Partners to match orientation
by: starfish00

And also, partner choice is NOT based on developed orientation but biology based as our heterosexual bodies testify to that.

Rick's comment: You are wrong on so many levels. Your task for the next four weeks is to read and study on this issue until you have real biblical facts to contribute to the discussion.

Jun 01, 2013
by: starfish00

"Before anyone can accept your, homosexuality is sin argument, you must prove it using scriptures in context.

You didn't even attempt to do that because you know that no verse of scripture in context, says what you believe about homosexuality.

Your hate the sin, love the sinner argument is incredibly unloving. You cannot separate your heterosexuality from who you are as a person. If I claim to love you but hate your heterosexuality, you would agree that is quite stupid. It's impossibleto loveyou asa person but hatewho you areasa person.

In the same way, we cannot separate being born homosexual from who we are as people. When you claim to loveusbut hate who we are as people, you are really claiming to hate us.

Will you alwayscondemn your gay brothers and lesbian sisters in such a thoughtless unloving unBiblical way?"

You see that is the problems with gays, they are so obsessed with sex that its becomes what they base thier identity on. Noyone is thier sexual "orientation". Youre not actually gay because you arent born that way. There isnt any proof in the world. Gay is a moral issue not a physical one. What you are saying is that people are what they want to have sex with. Thats gross reasoning and frankly, stupid, at best. But what can you expect of those who lust strange flesh or who lust sexually in general all the time? You dance around context and refuse to see the obvious. The entire Leviticus chapter 18 deals with sexual conduct exclusively. So yes, Leviticus 18:22 is clear as day when it says what it states.

Romans 1:32- Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, HATERS OF GOD, despiteful, PROUD, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Its really disgusting how prideful you are and you only take after your father lucifer. Why can't you just admit that the Bible condemns you? You wont have an excuse on judgement day thats for sure. Youre not a genuine follower of Christ because your actions and fruits speak otherwise, so why so you care to justify yourself? Whats so bad about admitting youre wrong? Stop spreading messages of false hope. Youre no better than the false prophets in Jeremiah who told the people one lie while God said something completely different. You have a lot of blood on your hands and I hope you are prepared to face punishment for leading others astray. Your own orientation is your own fault. You fed the idea in your heart until it was so out of control you couldnt stop it yourself. You need to be born again and given a new mind until then dont call yourself a christian.

Rick's comment: More oat bran in your diet could make a dramatic difference in your attitude.

Jun 01, 2013
Re: You are wrong on so many levels
by: starfish00

LMAO. Prove it. Again the frame for partner choice is biology. Nothing you say will change that-ever. Your state of mind is not an excuse to go against biological mandated and really, God's standards. Sexual orientation/preference is NOT exclusive to gender. The same way a person with species dysmorphia who thinks they are a golden retriever has no business choosing a real dog for a partner because of their sexual preference or "orientation" or beliefs about "who they are" as that would be beastiality which is also forbidden. Same with pedophiles, necrophiliacs, and all other paraphilias. What you find sexually exciting is NOT the standard for choosing a sexual partner/companion as the point of sex is reproduction...

God defines who we are-not ourselves. We cannot create truth/reality, we can only discover it. As doing the first would be blasphemy and playing God.

Rick's comment: A man who rejects truth becomes his own jailer, forever locked in the prison of ignorance.

Jun 01, 2013
Re: A man who reject truth becomes his own jailer
by: Anonymous

You just described yourself.

Jun 01, 2013
re: Justification by faith
by: starfish00

Justification is not by faith alone FYI. Its goes hand and hand (http://carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/what-relationship-between-faith-and-works) with good works, not evil ones (like this website) like promoting lust, fornication and sodomy. Love is NOT sexual otherwise everytime I'd tell my relatives I loved them it would be incest-another sin.

Biblically love and charity are interchangeable as they mean the same thing: selfless sacrificing giving out of care. Lust however is sexual and sex is not charity its a) a job to procreate and b) motivated by lust. Youre actually recieving when you have sex - (carnal) pleasure, that is and a baby when done normally.

The Bible states that the spirit is at flesh with the war and they cannot coexist.

Galatians 5:16-17 KJV - This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

All sexual unions (gay or not) are driven by lust. You are the one who is confused as lust and love are exact opposites. Love is spiritual and a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Sex is NOT it is a fruit of the flesh. By identifying as gay you are lusting against the Spirit and what it wants and Leviticus' strict sexual moral laws. And yes those still do apply as we are now Spiritual Israel but not yet in the Holy City. There are 3 laws: moral, ceremonial, and civil. The last 2 do not apply but the moral laws are timeless.

Galatians 5:19-22 KJV - Now the works of the FLESH are manifest, which are these; Adultery, FORNICATION, UNCLEANESS, LASCIVIOUSNESS, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, HERESIES, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the SPIRIT is LOVE, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

You are doing worse harm than athiest gays could ever do which is why this website fills me with indignation. Your arrogance and pride dont help matters.

Rick's comment: "It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man by logical argument.” - William McAdoo

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a belief he was never reasoned into." - Jonathan Swift

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." Proverbs 26:4

Jun 01, 2013
re: does not address our needs
by: starfish00

"Yet for the 5% of us who are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered, that passage does not address our needs."

Who the hell do you think you are? God does not need to cater to YOUR needs. He is God he does not need to cater to anything he hasn't provided provision for especially for "gay marriage" an institution that doesn't exist and frankly isn't even acknowledged. Does your arrogance know any bounds? We are made in God's image not the other way around. Twisting God's Word is an attempt to make God out to be as conforming to YOUR filthy image. Meaning you are covertly rendering God a homosexual which is BLASPHEMY. Hetero marraige reflects HIS image exclusively no matter how much you kick, scream and cry.

Genesis 1:27 KJV - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Notice how it says male AND female. Both are needed, together to make one image-God. If they were whole they would be complete within themselves and not be in need of complimentary sex organs and would be some kind of androgyn. They do in fact compliment hence becoming ONE flesh, as if each of them did have distinct whole reflections specific to either gender, God's image in himself that would mean God has 2 images and as he is ONE God that is not possible. Oh and Jesus did not get his complimentary concept from Plato LMAO as this concept originated with God himself before time existed and was recorded in the OT BEFORE Plato. Marriage completes God's image. And since God did not single out man or woman as solely comprising his image doing so would be idolizing one gender which is one of the root sins of homosexuality, by the way.

Rick's comment: There's not enough air pushing through the windmills of your mind.

I’m not saying you’re stupid. I’m just saying you have really bad luck when it comes to thinking.

Jun 01, 2013
Hey starfish double zero
by: starfish00

Rick's comment: I've deleted most of your hysterical angry rants. Get a grip sister! Venom and vitriol are not healthy.

Insults won't actually answer any of my points so I'll take that as concession.

Rick's comment: No dear - your points are answered on this 800+ page website. It would be to your advantage to get familiar with this info so you don't further embarrass yourself.

Jun 02, 2013
Hate the sin love the sinner is unloving
by: Anonymous

Yeah so I guess that means God is unloving. That is blasphemy as God is love and denying this would be denying God reducing your "faith" to mere ashes. Your fake christianity just blazes through the facade hiding utter contempt for God's word.

You need help as you cannot seen to seperate your sexual lust preferences from your persona.

Rick's comment: It is summer now and the sun is approaching its zenith. May I encourage you to always wear a ball cap when you're out in left field? Many thanks.

Jun 02, 2013
to starfish00
by: amy


You seem very convicted and have a clear understanding of many of the reasons God is not for same sex relationship. It seems to be a very serious issue. So serious that you can't refrain from "laughing my ass off...lmao." It has been my experience in life, that when people use that sort of language, and seem violently angry while laughing in a mocking way all at the same time, I start to seriously doubt your conversion or any love for the good Lord at all.

Furthermore, you clearly have no love for Rick, nor any good motives here exept to be violently angry and hostile. I'm wondering why violently angry, hostile, people, hang around here? Why not move on? What is your motive? It clearly is not love so what is your motive?

Jun 02, 2013
Validity of scripture
by: Anonymous

I am not sure scripture answers these questions. The NT was put together by men seeking to put their own agenda on the table and putting forward a particular vision of Christianity to create unity in the early church. They ommited many scriptures,e.g gnostic gospels, the gospel of Thomas.

Rick's comment: There are excellent historical reasons why early Christians did not view any of the gnostic gospels as part of inspired scripture. First, all of the gnostic gospels were written after the canon of scripture was closed. Second, Jesus was not in any way a gnostic or a Nazorean.

Really it is our own conscience (led by God) that determines what we do and one day we will know if God approves or dissaproves. It is not up to us to judge others anyway.

Rick's comment: What you have expressed is a common but false view about how the canon of scripture was formed. These links provide insight which points you to truth on this issue.

Rick's comment: What did Jesus believe about the Bible?

What should I believe about the Bible?

What do Christians believe about scripture?

The Bible and Christians.

Dude, do you really believe the Bible is true?

Jun 06, 2013
My apologies to Rick
by: Aaron Saltzer

I just wanted to apologize to you. I thought you changed the marriage quote from Genesis, which wasn't even spoken by God but Moses? Yet, Jesus does say that God made us "male and female"from the beginning.

Though I apologize for misunderstanding, it is obvious from your post that you chose to change 1 Corinthians 1:7-9 to try to support your claims, which is really concerning to me. I wanted to believe everything you put on this website, bc I don't want to be ashamed of who I am any longer. But when I see Christians who are gay, who go to the point of changing scripture to support them, it's just proof that there are false prophets out there. And how do I know the rest of the info you have on here isn't false?

Even when numerous attempts were made to point out your error, with people who quoted 1 Corinthians 1:7-9 as it is, you still have not seen the error that you made. Please don't change scripture, Rick. Unless it says what you said in the original language, but I doubt it. You're not proving your point to anyone doing that. God bless you.

Rick's comment: Aaron, I hope you will keep reading and studying. I have not changed scripture anymore than a preacher could be accused of changing scripture when he explains what it means.

You are confusing explaining scripture with changing scripture. Please do keep reading and studying and the Holy Spirit will make it plain to you. Many thanks.

Jun 08, 2013
1 Corinthians 7
by: Samson

The passage forementioned doesn't say anything about sexual orientations. The whole Bible does not say anything about that. The Bible never mention us as Gays, heterosexuals, lesbians, whatever you want. Those are just stamps and discriminations that we've started to use quite recently.

Rick's comment: And I have pointed out that basic fact in my book and on this website.

The passage is clear. It speaks of each man and each woman. Not heterosexuals or homosexuals. everybody, in general. Believing that the apostle want to say that each man/woman should choose his partner according to his sexual orientation would bring me to kindly ask you to show me some proofs:

1. that in the Bible, Old or New testament, the concept of " sexual orientation" is mentioned, so that we can assume that the apostle implied it in these passage. Or that in that time being either heterosexual in one hand or homosexual in the other hand was so obvious that the apostle didn't feel the need to explicitely mention those " orientations"!!

Rick's comment: God addressed scripture to a heterosexual audience (about 95% of humanity) because it would be silly to keep saying heterosexual and homosexual. Just from a literary standpoint, that would not make great literature.

God trusted that our common sense and our love for each other, John 15:35, would lead us to the truth that the 1 Cor 7 principle, that everyone (as you say) needs a committed partner to avoid fornication, would apply equally to gays. We need a partner compatible with our orientation just as a straight man needs a partner compatible with his orientation.

2. if the idea of a homosexual union/partnership/marriage was openly accepted in his time, so that the apostle could even consider recommending it to the Saints.

Rick's comment: Gay unions were accepted in some places where Paul ministered the gospel, the Greek city states for example. Please do more reading on this website. In particular, click on any NavBar button under, What The Bible Says.

I expect to be mocked like some of the latest commentators, but I would really appreciate it if you could respond to me with respect. But however you respond (or choose not not), the time I spent surfing on your website was highly educational and I am grateful for that. Greetings from Norway.

Rick's comment: I'm thankful to have readers in Norway - lovely country and lovely people!

Jun 14, 2013
here is God's answer plane and simple
by: micmicbee

if you read it you know it, and if you do not twist the words as you like doing then here is your plane and simpel answer if GAY people go to heaven. NO

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men. - micmicbee

Rick's comment: No micmicbee, that is not God's answer. That is a sloppy mistranslation.

The Greek text which Paul wrote NEVER said anything about "men who have sex with men." Paul invents a new word to use in 1 Cor 6:9, based on the wording of Leviticus 18:22 and especially 20:13 - arsenos koiten.

That new word, arsenokoitai, was understood from 1400 BC on through time to the lifetime of Paul in the first century AD, as a reference to cult prostitutes or shrine prostitutes or temple prostitutes. The other word in 1 Cor 6:9 which is incorrectly translated as "men who have sex with men" is malakoi. Malakoi is never used in the Bible to mean homosexual.

micmicbee, you are not studying your Bible. Instead, you read a verse in an untrustworthy translation and assume you know what it means without any study. Please get serious about your Bible study.

Jun 21, 2013
Love the sinner, hate the sin
by: Brian

No fear here. No hate. And I absolutely agree many times homosexuality is put up on a pedestal of being a worse sin. It isnt. It pulls the sinner away from God like any other sin (although the Bible is also clear about the danger of sin of the flesh, homo or hetero).

We can argue about scripture all day for gay marriage but the act of homosexual sex can't be argued. It's totally straightforward. It is a sin. And we all know that the Bible is very clear on sex inside of marriage (ie enjoy! See all of Song of Solomon!). So, since we are all trying to really understand what scripture is getting to, lets all agree, homosexual sex is a sin, and marriage is the place to have sex. If we are fair, then, we can safely say homosexual marriage is wrong.

The bottom line is, a person is never more creative than when defending his own sin. Jesus hates sin. All sin. And Jesus loves all people. Yes, ALL people. Homosexual or straight.

Rick's comment: Sad but typical Brian. You assume being gay is a sin. You ask us to assume the same without going to the Bible to see if your interpretation is in context or even truthful.

You need to do a lot more reading and study brother.

Jun 22, 2013
Wow.... I cannot wait to hear what God has to say
by: BJ

Homosexuality is a SIN. How can you not see and understand this from scripture? "Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. "(1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 18-20 NIV)

You can take a particular scripture from the Old or New Testament and flip it any way you like, but you will never change what God has ordained as a legitimate Godly marriage. It is troubling to me that after several thousand years people think they can change or re-interpret God's word and God's stand on this issue. It is defined as a sin all throughout scripture from the old to the New Testament and you cannot miss it unless you are spiritually blind. REPENT OF YOUR TRANGRESSION AND TURN TO GOD. HE LOVES YOU AND NO ONE IS JUDGING YOU. But to say that homsexualiyy is right is against the very bible you say you believe in. That is a contradiction. Adulterers, idolaters, drunkards and homosexual offenders are all said to be SINNERS. Stop trying to change our view and change your way of living. God is not pleased!

Rick's comment: It is troubling to me that after four thousand+ years of polygamous marriage being just fine with God in the Old Testament, people think they can change the meaning of marriage to match their modern personal views.

I'm not sure if you anti-gay folks are incorrigibly obtuse or willfully ignorant or perhaps just too lazy to study your Bible. It may be a combination of those things.

Jun 23, 2013
About Polygamous marriage
by: Aaron Saltzer

Idk why you choose to ignore these people, Rick, but Polygamous marriage, was in The Old Testament, clearly, and there is no polygamous marriages in the New one.

Rick's comment: Aaron, I think you are missing the point. If there is even one exception to absolute complementarianism (the view that the ONLY marriage God will bless is a one man with one woman marriage), then complementarianism is not absolute. If it is not absolute, then God can and does bless other kinds of marriage. For example:

King David was a bisexual polygamist who spent fifteen years in committed relationship with Jonathan. In addition to Jonathan, David had at least eight wives whose names are listed in the Bible.

In addition to those wives, God gave David all of King Saul's wives, 2 Sam 3:2-5, 13-14, 11:27, 12:7-8, 19:5, 1 Chron 14:3. This was possible because those relationships were culturally appropriate back then. In addition to his many wives, King David also had concubines because those relationships were culturally appropriate back then, 2 Samuel 5:13. You may remember that Abraham, the friend of God, also had concubines with whom he produced children, Genesis 25:1-6.

In the context of Old Testament family values, where polygamy and concubinage were culturally accepted, the Bible does not view polygamy and men with concubines as adulterers or immoral.

We know that polygamy, a man having more than one wife, was affirmed and blessed in the Old Testament, according to Genesis 4:19, 16:3-4, 25:1-6, 29:20-28, 30:4-9, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, 2 Samuel 12:7-8, where God Himself affirms polygamy and 2 Chronicles 24:2-3, where the Holy Spirit affirms polygamy by implication.

Polygamous marriage was not mentioned in the New Testament, bc of what Jesus said.

Rick's comment: In the New Testament, polygamy is ONLY FORBIDDEN for bishops and deacons, 1 Timothy 3:2, 12, Titus 1:6. Culture and local law determines if polygamy is practiced these days.

Also, I've been hearing that Polygamous marriage had consequences as well, which you choose to ignore. Also, polygamous marriage does not line up with homosexual marriage, bc it is still heterosexual.

Rick's comment: Again, you are missing the point. Please take time to carefully reread the article.

Stop trying to use the "blessing" of Polygamous marriage to support your answer. It will get you nowhere. Even if the bible has been misinterpreted on this homosexuality, it will never change what Jesus thought a marriage was: a MAN and WOMAN. All the marriages mentioned the bible, whether polygamous or monogamous were always heterosexual.

Rick's comment: The Bible addresses the heterosexual majority, 95% vs. about 5% who are GLBT. Yet the Bible also includes the touching story of David and Jonathan's 15 year intimate partnership.

Jun 24, 2013
David and Jonathan
by: Aaron Saltzer

Where do you get your facts from that Jonathan and David were in a 15 year committed relationship? There is nothing in the bible that says they were.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - the info is in my book. My J and D chapter is 54 pages long and contains the facts upon which I base my conclusion.

Also, David and Jonathan's relationship can easily be rebuked as homoerotic, considering the culture and history in biblical times. As well as The Centurion and his servant, Ruth and Naomi, and any other gay marriages or relationships that people claim there are. Why is it that if there was a gay relationship in the bible, it was either between eunuchs, or a man and a eunuch. News flash, eunuchs were transgender, not men that were anatomically whole.

Rick's comment: Aaron, you are so confused about eunuchs. You are a classic example of one who rejects facts instead of embracing truths you have not previously learned. As long as you reject truth, you will remain in darkness.

Also, Jesus never mentions why a woman should not marry a man. Does this give us any indication that there was no excuse for it?

Rick's comment: That bit of illogic is something you regard as important? Aaron, you are sometimes your own worst enemy. Your unhappiness springs from embracing the self-hatred you've been taught instead of exploring truths beyond the narrow confines of your life experience.

There is peace and joy, happiness and blessing for you as a saved gay man loving and serving God. Please stop defending the false teachings about gays that you grew up with.

Jun 25, 2013
Judgment Day
by: Aaron Saltzer

I think we'll all find out the truth on Judgment Day. I hope you're right in your research, along with the other "pro-gay" people, and you all get into heaven.

Rick's comment: How can I get saved?

What is justification by faith?

What happens when you get saved?

I'm saved so why do I still struggle with sin?

Jun 25, 2013
From the superstitious scapular crowd
by: Anonymous

Ken: After reading the response to your statements and support, it is quite obvious that gay men will just create their own reality behind the Gospels. I guess they do it to justify their life and lifestyle.

If this isn't proof that you have to give up trying to lay out the facts to a group who can't see anything but justifying their own lifestyle, then I don't know what is.

I'm sorry that there are gay men and women in the world. But there are. That's a fact. That's reality. I think they should have the same rights to live with and love the men they love. They were born that way. It's their natural attraction. But they should live in a union, which is certainly not a marriage.

They want to be accepted into society like they were born normal. They weren't. I'm sorry for that, but it's their cross in life to bear.

But for people who weren't born gay, trying to present a reasonable argument about gay marriage is a complete waste of time. They won't listen. And by arguing and fighting, all they do is turn more and more people against them. More gay kids get picked on and abused because of their stubborn actions. More gay teens commit suicide. They think it's the opposite. It's not. They are putting a spotlight on it and the truth is revealed int he schoolyards of America, where teens don't have to be politically correct like the television news reporters, who present anything but the truth.

To the gay men and women in the world, if I was in your shoes, I would just try to live my life as happy as possible, keeping my sexual orientation to myself, with or without a partner - whatever your circumstance. You are God's children, but you have been given a much tougher cross to carry. I'll pray you find the way. - Catholics of the Midwest

Rick's comment: I cannot make up stuff like this folks.

Jun 25, 2013
Make up stuff like what?
by: Amy

Make up stuff like what? And who are the "folks" you are speaking to? I'm confused. Almost no one who contributes here agrees with you Rick, and almost everyone would identify with and agree with that last contribution?

Rick's comment: Amy, the crowd is usually wrong. "The job of every Christian is to determine the course of the age in which he lives and then, go against it." - Dan Truax, missionary to Africa, around 1971

Make up stuff like what?

1. Gay men creating our own reality. That's a snarky way of saying we're biblically wrong without advancing even a rudimentary context based argument from the Bible.

2. That gay men justify our own lifestyle. That from a Catholic whose church spent over $1 billion dollars paying off lawsuits to children molested by Roman Catholic priests with a pedophile lifestyle.

3. That gay men are not amenable to facts. No one has laid out any in context facts, choosing instead to offer the same lame out of context arguments. There are 500+ pages of carefully sourced historically accurate facts on this website alone.

4. Denying us equal rights under the law. "They want to be accepted into society like they were born normal." Ummm, didn't he just admit we ARE born different?

5. Blaming the gay community for the assaults and suicides and bullying perpetrated against gay teens. He believes gays standing up for our civil rights causes gay teens to commit suicide.

6. We should keep our sexual orientation to ourselves. Not that he keeps his heterosexual orientation to himself. Not that anti-gay heteros keep their sexual orientation to themselves. He wants to force us back into the closet of fear and discrimination.

7. He'll pray we find the way. In other words, against psychology and psychiatry, against social science experts, against everything the Bible says, in context, and against our human and civil rights, he still believes what his pedophile protecting church tells him, that gays are intrinsically disordered.

Please don't look at all these child molesting priests. The REAL problem is gays and lesbians. Yeah, that's the story.

Jun 27, 2013
What a Great Site
by: Anonymous

I have spent the last 2 hours reading this site (actual research) and also the comments (sad). It surprised me to hear the same thoughts that I have heard in churches, like a broken record. As a church secretary, I had heard a lot, most of it based in fear.

Your site opened my eyes, I realized how wrong I was saying, "love the person, hate the sin." It sounds nice and Christian, but logically that is impossible. Also demeaning to the person and makes me sound like I am right and you are damaged.

Thank you for that. Sometimes we Christians use the Bible as a sword to kill our fellow Christians.

I hope someday, people will once again view Christianity as love. They will know us by our love for each other.

Rick's comment: Thanks for your kind and discerning comments. On this website we are all about the truth of God, in context. Even the unsaved gays I know are often more honest than the professing christians who comment here. In any case, we'll keep telling the truth till Jesus comes back.

Jun 30, 2013
Defending Polygamy
by: GJM

Defending Polygamy are we? Polygamy only differs from traditional marriage by degree. In the act itself, it is still one woman, one man. The homosexual act is what is sinful. If homosexuals formed a Civil Union but remained celibate no one would object. Civil Unions on the whole do not last as long as traditional marriages which is saying something given the rampant divorce rates today. Read up on research on the children of gay couples. There are a lot of problems there.

Rick's comment: You are a blizzard of false information. You've spent too much time reading the lies of the anti-gay crowd. On this website, we deal with truth, not lies told by anti-gay kooks.

Jul 01, 2013
The Bible means what it says
by: Jeff

Rick, since the default on "Your Name" is Anonymous, and since it says "Your Name" is "optional", perhaps people on here, including you, should not be so quick to demean those who don't take the time to put in their name.

Now, for the meat of the matter. When God created the heavens and the earth, He said that everything was good. However, He later (nobody knows how much later) said is it NOT good for man to be alone. Therefor, He created a suitable helper for him. This perfect helper was not another man but a woman. This perfect helper was made to be able to procreate with him. This perfect helper was to be his soul-mate. I've read all you've said on the subject, but I still come back to this is what God set up in beginning. This is His ideal. Go back and read Genesis chapters 1 and 2.

I pray you may believe the whole counsel of God and put away the "sin that so easily besets you".

Rick's comment: Hi Jeff - a bit snarky since you don't know me. The Bible never says that Adam and Eve are God's ideal or that God will not bless any other marriage relationship. You guys read that into scripture and then toss it back to us as if scripture really said it. Your opinion about what scripture says is not always the same as what scripture actually says.

And you've managed to ignore everything I wrote in the article. I guess you guys don't want any information that contradicts your opinion.

On the Anonymous thing - No, there are some really mean-spirited professing christians out there who prefer to say nasty things as long as they can hide in the shadows of Anonymity. I delete many comments because they are so dumb or so vile or both.

Jul 02, 2013
Men alone
by: Matthew

“And the LORD God said, ‘It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.’"

Men alone are not enough for Gods intended Holy Union.

Rick's comment: Men alone are not enough? Sez who? The Bible doesn't say that. Jesus didn't say that. The verse you cited doesn't say that.

Aug 09, 2013
Get over it
by: Carl

Dude just get over your self and your own beliefs. That's right! Your own beliefs. All that is happening is the Bible being taken out of context by you. Everyone that has quoted scripture (in your mind against you) is doing so to have the truth heard, instead of your own interpretation of what it actually says.

It does say God made man and woman to leave each others parents and become one flesh. And it also says how God created a helper suitable for man.

No where in the Bible does it mention anything about same sex marraige. It always says man and woman or husband and wife. God thought people would be able to figure out what that meant without an anatomy lesson.

So if you want to keep believing what you do, join the mormons. The are fine with dudes on dudes on dudes. But if you would like to quote the Bible, quote the Bible as it is without your lies fed in.

Rick's comment: LOL Carl, you're a hoot!

Aug 19, 2013
by: Anonymous

I like how people look at the story of sodom and gommorah as being destroyed for homosexuality. Makes no sense that god would send angels to warn of destruction based on sexual perversion only to have lot father children to his own daughters. And i like how the blame is placed only on the daughters for he didn't know what he was doing.What a crock. As a man,he may have been drunk enough not to care at the moment, but he would have to be "excited and with it" enough to function properly. And i can find no scripture where any one sin is anymore unforgiveable than another. In gods eyes, sin is sin. Where does it say there are levels of hell according to the sin commited? I'm strait and married to a wonderful woman and don't agree with homosexuality but i also don't know how it feels to be that way. I don't condemn those who are. We'll all answer for our own lives in the end.

Sep 22, 2013
Whats up with all the books and websites
by: Todd

How many heterosexual Christian 101 websites are they? I found zero. If being homosexual isn't a sin what's up with all the websites?

Rick's comment: Because so many professing Christians lie about what the Bible says and because so many professing Christians try to use the power of government to enforce their hetero lifestyle on gays, websites like this exist.

What must I do to be saved?

Nov 02, 2013
Stop trying to make the bible say what it isnt saying just to have an excuse to live the way you want.
by: brian

Homosexuality is a sin and no matter how much anyone who is gay trys to make it right is wrong biblically. The bible says that when a man is born again(saved/christian) he becomes a new person, the old person he or she was has passed away. corinthian 5:17.

A lot of people who say they are christians are not born again, because if they were, the holy spirit inside of them would asure them of Gods perfect will and let them know what wrong and right was. If a person does not repent (turn away) from that sin or sinful life style is not born again. leviticus 18:22, leviticus 20:13, 1 timothy 1:10, 1 corithians 6:9 Romans 1:26-28 speaks against homosexuality.

Rick's comment: No Brian, when read in context, those verses are talking about unsaved pagans who used same sex rituals to worship false gods and goddesses. Gays and lesbians are not what God is talking about in those verses.

God is the same god he was yesterday as he is today. he doesnt change even if the world view changes. James 1:17.


Rick's comment: Brian, it helps to remind ourselves that ALL scripture must be read and understood in context. We cannot rip verses out of context and insist they mean something which they did not mean in context. Handling the Bible that way is not honest.

If you are truly seeking God's truth, please click on any button on the NavBar under, What The Bible Says. Many thanks for stopping by.

Nov 14, 2013
Rick read for yourself sir
by: bfj

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NIV - Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Rick's comment: The NIV is notorious for changing its wording and 1 Cor 6:9 is a good example. Their phrase, men who have sex with men, is not a translation. The Greek text simply does not say that. Here is the Greek-English text if you'd like to see what it says.

Greek-English text of 1 Cor 6:9

Here is the meaning of arsenokoitai, the Greek word which is so poorly translated in the NIV. Hope this is helpful in your search for truth.

Nov 18, 2013
1 Corinthians 6 regarding homosexuality
by: Abraham

Rick, Check your OWN source, the NIV is not the only translation that rebukes homosexuality, for instance here's the New Living Translation, a translation that I own:

1 Cor 6:9 "Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality"

Scripture is clear, and the view of the most respected modern figures in Christian literature and theology such as CS Lewis (Mere Christianity) to Timothy Keller affirm that marriage is between one MAN and one WOMAN.

I encourage those rebuking the false information on this site to be "always full of grace, seasoned with salt" Col 4:6

Also I encourage you Rick to read the works CS Lewis and Keller and others, good luck.

Rick's comment: Abraham, just for the record, I have read CS Lewis and Tim Keller. Lewis was not a Bible scholar. He was instead, a scholar of medieval literature. I believe your estimation of C.S. Lewis will be changed after reading A.N. Wilson's excellent, C.S. Lewis, A Biography. Bible believers who constantly cite Lewis as an authority will be appalled to discover how Lewis lived, talked, drank, etc.

It seems to me that you are unfamiliar with the material I present on this website about the historical meaning of the Greek word, arsenokoitai. Because I have carefully sourced the information I present and because I have used world-class scholars, it seems to me that you and others who disagree, need to find substantive reasons to support your views, instead of assuming I have not read widely or instead of assuming that people who translate modern versions of the Bible got it right.

Vast quantities of information exist if you're willing to read, study, compare and consider. Not one shred of historical evidence from the first century AD exists to support your view that Paul intended to condemn gays and lesbians in 1 Cor 6:9. If Paul did not intend to condemn gays and lesbians in 1 Cor 6:9 in the mid-first century AD, then that verse did not, over the last 1950 years, morph into a condemnation of gays and lesbians, which means that your understanding of that verse is dead wrong.

May I kindly suggest that you need to do more study on this issue?

Nov 25, 2013
Blown away
by: McKenzie Myers

Rick, your response to Ken here is problematic. You assume that he is being condescending and attack his points with ramblings that don't make sense. You even twist Scripture and say it teaches to have an "orientationally compatible partner" when it really says for "each man to have his own wife and each woman her own husband." Nevermind the issue we're discussing. I'm blown away.

In the most loving of ways I mean this. You should re-examine your tone in what you have made to be a rebuttal in a debate instead of a productive contribution in a discussion. I will sit down and talk with a supporter of gay marriage if they can be respectful and use Scripture CORRECTLY to support their position. Sir, you fail to display Christ's gentleness in this.

Rick's comment: Hi McKenzie. May I encourage you to carefully reread the article, plus click on and read all of the text links, before making a decision? I deal with facts and with what the Bible says, in context. It is not honest to take verses out of context, as Ken does, then misapply the out of context verses and insist the out of context verses means something they did NOT mean in context. Can we agree on that?

"Ramblings that don't make sense?" Is it possible that you only skimmed the article, instead of reading it carefully? Is it possible that if you took time to read and digest the arguments I made, you would discover that they do indeed make sense?

As to whether or not I display the gentleness of Christ, many young post-moderns confuse confident statement of truth with not displaying the gentleness of Christ. May I gently encourage you to read Matthew 23 out loud to yourself?

Jesus addresses religious people and their false teaching. He is not gentle in His condemnation of false teaching. Wisdom compels us to answer some people one way and other people another way, Proverbs 26:4-5.

Dec 24, 2013
Why does one have to be right?

Good believers of the Bible should understand that God speaks to all that will listen. We must all get along with love and understanding not judgement and hatred. Let there be one God and one judge and let us be comfortable in our life style that we choose. Be it gay or straight, life is to short to argue over words and life styles. I think God would want us to focus on bigger things in life for example the poor the hungry the homeless and other people that Jesus talks about. May the peace of the Holy Spirit surround you this Christmas season with a joy you have never experienced before in your life!

Rick's comment: One has to be right because truth is important to God and to us as people made in the image of God. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - Jesus in John 17:17

The Bible has the truth about Jesus and here is the real reason for Christmas. "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners..." - 1 Timothy 1:15. "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Here is how to get saved by receiving Jesus Christ as your Savior this Christmas.

Dec 30, 2013
by: Rainn Essman

I'm sorry but where in Genesis 1 or 2 does it mention polygamy? It may have been accepted after Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden, but it's not mentioned in Genesis 1 or 2. According to you "When Jesus cites Genesis 2:24, by no means did Jesus or Jewish men understand Genesis 2:24 as prohibiting polygamy."

Polygamy was not mentioned there, only after their fall, and after Cain kills Abel, since sin begets sin. Adam and Eve were no longer in their state of innocence as they were in Eden. So their- Jesus and the Jewish men's-"understanding" of the acceptance of polygamy between man and woman could not have come from those verses from genesis

Also where in 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 does it read "orientation compatible partner." your grasping at straws with your arguments against what "anti-gay Christians" believe. "principle of partnership"?

Rick's comment: Hi Rainn - thank you for demonstrating the absolute complementarian viewpoint and the a/c mindset so perfectly.

"If it's not in Genesis 1-2, then we refuse to consider it."

Genesis 1 and 2 also does not tell us that an Adam and Eve type of marriage is the ONLY marriage relationship God will bless. You folks read that into the text because the text does not say it and then try to foist that view off on us AS IF the text said it. Sorry Rainn but we're not buying it.

About 1 Cor 7:1-9 - you believe that a woman for a man and a man for a woman equals an orientation compatible partner. Yet when we point out that for a small percentage of the human race, an orientation compatible partner would be a same sex partner, you insist that the text doesn't use those precise words.

It will do you good to reread the article and attempt to see viewpoints other than your own. You're missing the boat on this topic, which means you are misinterpreting scripture. Many thanks for stopping by.

Feb 05, 2014
by: Lance

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

What version of the bible is this found?

Rick's comment: Hi Lance - are you saying that Paul is not talking about an orientation compatible partner in 1 Cor 7:2?

Feb 05, 2014
Re: Translation
by: Lance

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

What version of the bible is this found? I am not stating, I am asking a question. In your article, you placed quotes around the above statement. Who is this quoting and from what bible version? Is the quote your interpretation? If so, which bible version? I am trying to understand how one arrived at the interpretation quoted.

Rick's comment: Hi Lance - the quote paraphrases a position, a viewpoint about the meaning of 1 Cor 7:2. It is not a quote from any version.

May I encourage you to think about these issues? The anti-gay crowd believes that one should marry an orientation compatible partner. For them, that is an opposite sex partner.

For gays, an orientation compatible partner is a same sex partner.

Feb 06, 2014
Re: Translation
by: Lance

Who is the source of the quote? I am interested how they came to interpret the definition of husband and wife to be non gender related (Husband being a male and a wife being a female). I need much stronger evidence by clear context that this could have been even remotely possible.

Rick's comment: I believe you are missing the point. When any heterosexual gets married, (s)he marries an orientation compatible partner. For a hetero man, that is a hetero woman.

When a gay man gets married, an orientation compatible partner for him is another man. When a lesbian gets married, an orientation compatible partner for her is another woman. No one is trying to redefine husband and wife to be non-gender related.

The term anti-gay means what? That one is against the person or against the sin or both? That one hates the person or hates the sin or both? I hate the sin and love the person as my brother or sister as God commands. This is a difficult thing for some of my close gay friends to understand and some now refuse to associate with me because they don't believe one can separate the act from the person or they cannot accept that I hate the sin even though they know I love the sinner. I have literally been told that to hate the act is to hate the person and it is irrational to believe otherwise. I even tried to use the analogy that if my son were gay, I would still love him, but hate the sin. Of all the sinners out their, I am chief. If I hated folks because of their sin, I would have no family or friends.

Rick's comment: It is impossible to separate you from your heterosexual orientation. It is equally impossible to separate us from our homosexual orientation.

Sexual orientation is innate - we are born with it - it is not something we chose. Sexual orientation is part of who we are as people. By obsessing over our sexual orientation and insisting that you love us but hate our sin, you betray your bigotry or your ignorance.

I refuse to contort the meaning of the bible to accommodate my sin. I am divorced and have since remarried and I repent for this as I am the one that caused it through my infidelity. I repent for this and know it will always be a sin because I cannot make it right and will be judged for it.

Rick's comment: Lance, do you know for sure that you are saved?

When you get saved, you are justified by faith and ALL of your sins are forgiven because when He died on the Cross, Jesus paid for ALL of your sins and God the Father accepted His payment.

Feb 10, 2014
One Flesh
by: Stewart

How does the author of this site deal with the rest of what Jesus said. Is this not the union and hence gives us the context of the whole?

Rick's comment: Excellent point Stewart. In the Bible a marriage is when flesh joins flesh, therefore Jesus cites Gen 1:27 and 2:24. A marriage is not the civil or religious ceremony as some believe today. Nor is a marriage the engagement although that is how ancient Jews regarded it.

In biblical times, there were three classes of people - men, women and eunuchs. What differentiated eunuchs in ancient times was that they did not usually reproduce. In Roman culture, some born eunuchs who were slaves were compelled to reproduce so that their master could increase his wealth via the children who grew up as slaves.

In modern times as civil unions and gay marriage became legal, some gay couples do reproduce via in vitro fertilization or via surrogacy or via adoption. In Matthew 19 Jesus dealt with first century culture as He found it. Hope this is helpful Stewart.

Feb 17, 2014
One Flesh
by: Stewart

Thank you for the open dialogue, I have tried to have an open dialogue on other sites and my post never got on the site... How do you conclude that God commanded this type of union for every other possible situation.

Rick's comment: I do not understand your question. I have not concluded that God commanded this type of union for every other possible situation. That is your opinion, based on the presuppositions you bring to the text, not based on what the text actually says.

I am going to avoid the artificial means that you quoted that technology has introduced so as to stay on point. Woman was compatible to man to fulfill this union.

I have posted my comments not to be combative, you have been faithful to reply to all these other questions and hope that these things will not allow anyone to a hardened heart or to have a spirit of pride.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.

Rick's comment: Stewart, it will be helpful for you to read these pages. God bless in your search for truth.

Biblical Complementarity?

In Genesis 2:24, did God intend to prohibit same sex marriages?

Where did the modern idea of complementarity come from?

How to be saved and KNOW it FOR SURE.

Feb 17, 2014
One Flesh
by: Stewart

"Sorry if I miss understood you when you defined marriage as the joining of the flesh... Sorry if I took "Therefore Shall" as a command when God is speaking. Let me rephrase my question.

How did you come to the conclusion from the part of Genesis 2:24 "they shall become one flesh" to apply to Gay "Marriage" the joining of the flesh, where the two become one?

Rick's comment: We know there are exceptions to one man with one woman marriage being God's only plan for humanity in at least two ways.

1. Only 44 verses after Genesis 2:24, we see the first polygamous marriage mentioned in the Bible in Genesis 4:19. Polygamy is not one man with one woman. It is one man with two or more women. God made provision for polygamy in Deu 21:15-17 and sanctified polygamy as good in 2 Samuel 12:7-8, 2 Chronicles 24:2-3, Job 27:15, Jeremiah 31:32, etc.

2. Celibacy is an exception to Adam and Eve style marriage being God's only plan for humanity. If there are two exceptions, is it possible there are more than two? Must God list every exception or does common sense encourage us not to read into the text what it does not say - the absolute complementarian position.

I guess I don't want to assume this. What is the one flesh? A child? The two become one?

Rick's comment: One flesh is not having children. It is the sexual union, which may or may not produce children. Sterile couples or elderly couples have sex but cannot reproduce. In plainer words, sex in marriage is for many reasons besides reproduction.

I want to know what you think about this, was the woman in Genesis 2:24 made complimentary for Adam to fulfill His Plan?

Rick's comment: Yes but to read into Genesis 2:24 that everyone must replicate the Adam and Eve marriage is to believe something scripture does not say. Absolute complementarians then teach what scripture does not say as if it is absolute truth. That is the tactic of the anti-gay marriage crowd. Their unscriptural presuppositions are served up as absolute truth, and even though scripture does not say it, they proclaim their opinion as if it were absolute truth.

Feb 26, 2014
Matthew 19:8
by: J

Anyone that is saying, "there isn't scripture that says a person CANT do etc." should have people turning heads.... I'll remind you of the serpent saying otherwise to Eve that she would not die and become like God.

When I was reading the article I kept expecting to come across verse 8...I find it VERY convenient that you left this verse out. Many people have had their hearts hardened. More importantly Jesus states that "_______" from the beginning has not been this way. Divorce, polygamy, homosexuality. It was a man and woman. The blank is "in context" for divorce. However, anything else that was not the way in the beginning is still FACT.

You create your own way. You are in rebellion to God. You saying homosexuality is ok is the equivalent of you saying "not your way God, but mine." I tried my way for a long time. And anything contrary to God is rebellion. SIN IS LIVING YOUR WAY, NOT HIS. Don't miss this, Christian.

There is no such thing as a saved alcoholic, smoker, homosexual, fornicator, compulsive liar etc. if you have truly been set free from sin, how can you allow yourself to be content in saying I can drink til I'm drunk everyday of the week? No, when you stumble, when you fall, when you step on your laces and trip, do you not tie your shoes before getting back up? As such, any person who tries to walk with God with untied shoelaces will repeatedly fail. You cannot walk while living in sin. Bound up your laces and sin, and then walk with God.

Stumbling on a rock and tripping on shoelaces are two different things. The rock wasn't in your control. Your shoelaces though are. Anything contrary to how God made marriage in the beginning goes against his authority.

Rick's comment: J - You are so well versed in missing the point.

1. Jesus made exception for eunuchs, to the Adam and Eve marriage paradigm by saying "All men cannot receive this saying." How did you miss that?

2. Jesus distinguished between castrated eunuchs and eunuchs who chose to be eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven and eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb. How did you miss that?

3. Being alcoholic, fornicator, smoker, compulsive liar - those are behaviors. They are not characteristics someone was born with. Being gay is an innate characteristic. According to Jesus, it was not chosen by the individual "so born from their mother's womb." How did you miss that?

4. Your final sentence - 'polygamy is not how it was from the beginning' yet God blessed polygamy, Deu 21:15-17, 2 Samuel 12:7-8 and 2 Chron 23:2-3, and polygamy is not how it was at the beginning. How did you miss that?

Feb 26, 2014
You can't serve yourself and God
by: J

1. Those who are to be single, through birth, by mankind, or for the Kingdom of Heaven, is not related to this conversation. Eunuch does not mean gay. But let us play with your logic. If eunuch does imply gay, the verse would be translated:

For there are eunuchs (gays) who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs (gays) who were made eunuchs (gays) by men; and there are also eunuchs (gays) who made themselves eunuchs (gays) for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it. "

Rick's comment: Dr. Robert Gagnon is the leading Christian anti-gay author of a 520 page book, The Bible and Homosexual Practice, and a prolific speaker and author of anti-gay articles. Here is what he admits in writing on his website.

"Probably "born eunuchs" in the ancient world did include people homosexually inclined..." You obviously have never studied the issue, have not read any of the scholarly literature on the issue, and therefore, you don't know what you're talking about.

This is what Paul was talking about too. Not everyone is gifted with celibacy. And this is what Jesus meant: not everyone can be celibate, some desire to marry. 3. Being alcoholic, fornicator, smoker, compulsive liar - those are behaviors. They are not characteristics someone was born with. Being gay is an innate characteristic. According to Jesus, it was not chosen by the individual "so born from their mother's womb." How did you miss that?

You do recognize these as behaviors, sinful behavior. As such, one can choose to stop these through Christ's power. Everyone is born with a flesh that desires to sin. Just as one is "born" into lusting for women, others are "born" to lust for men, animals, pleasures of the flesh. It's your choice to come and get right with God. I'm not advocating gays become straight, but that gays give up this desire.

Unfortunately, those who are so deep in their passion for sinning are given over to it. If someone's life revolves around proclaiming their homosexuality, sex, or sin, then you are not to inherit the kingdom of heaven. Corinthians 6:9-11. You can't live in sin. You are a sinner, you will sin, but living in sin, (drunkards, whores, liars, homosexuals, fornicators) these cost you salvation. Don't fool yourself that you can live in sin and die by Christ. It's your choice to stop sinning. God gives the power to.

Rick's comment: Saved people cannot lose their salvation. I encourage you to study justification by faith.

I came here and gave you truth so that you could test yourself. Gods word is open for interpretation as long as everyone else is open. I am open to the interpretation you provided but it has a fallacy.

Feb 26, 2014
by: Amy

Rick: The issues you described as behaviors and claim they are not part of who we are is utterly wrong and entirely bias on your part. A person who is an alcoholic is pre disposed to that (born that way) and it is a disease. That is entirely out of a persons control. With support and prayer a person can control, and/or manage, and/or even stop the behavior of drinking. In the same way we are able to control whether we have sex or not. We are pre-disposed (born with) to all of the so called "behaviors" you mention, to varying degrees. We battle our flesh in this life.

How typically arrogant and self-righteous of you to use science, psychology, and the Bible to support your particular propensities, but disregard every other human on the planet who struggles with their own predispositions. Your pride has no limit.

Rick's comment: Amy, there are two recognized sexual orientations, heterosexual and homosexual. Both are innate, normal and unchangeable. On the other hand, no one is born alcoholic or a smoker or a fornicator or a compulsive liar from his mother's womb. That is the point.

A genetic predisposition is vastly different than an innate orientation.

Feb 26, 2014
No evidence that being gay is innate
by: amy

Rick: There is no evidence supporting your claim of what you are calling innate... There is enormous differing outcomes on this issue, and determining "born this way" via science is nowhere near what you attempt to suggest.

Rick's comment: Amy, facts in the real world contradict your view. For example:

1. Exodus International, after almost forty years of ministry, closed their doors in 2013 and went out of the ex-gay business. Exodus President Allen Chambers admitted that 99.9% of the thousands who went through their ministry did not change their orientation, including Allen himself.

2. John Smid led the largest Exodus affiliated residential ex-gay ministry for 22 years. He finally left that ministry and proclaimed that he had never seen anyone change their sexual orientation. He is now living and serving God with his male partner in Texas.

3. Dr. Robert Gagnon is the leading anti-gay author of, The Bible and Homosexual Practice, and a prolific speaker and author of many anti-gay articles. Here is what he admits in writing on his website.

"Probably "born eunuchs" in the ancient world did include people homosexually inclined..."

4. Jesus is clear that being gay is innate, in Matthew 19:3-12. Gays and lesbians and transgendered people are part of the category called born eunuchs.

I wasn't born this way. It happened as a result of trauma. Being involved in AA, I know a lot of alcoholics who would beg to differ on your outcome.

Rick's comment: Amy, rape and sexual abuse do not make someone gay or lesbian. Those events can sometimes cause one to question their orientation but they do not cause one's sexual orientation.

In cases where someone is traumatized due to rape or sexual abuse, the best course is counseling with someone experienced at providing that counseling specialty.

I have spoken to a few lesbians who were happily married to men but who later went into long-term lesbian partnerships. They did believe they were not born lesbian. Many people view people in those situations as bisexual, instead of innately gay or lesbian.

May 06, 2014
lil rick would defend sleeping with animals
by: pitt

rick, If u truly read d bible, u'd knw dat there's no where gay life was allowed. Gay is wrong in God's sight. And i know very soon some people will start sleeping with animals and u'd back defending them - wondering which part of the scripture u'd twist.

Rick's comment: Hi Pitt - sorry you're having such a bad day. Here is what I believe about beastiality.

Why beastiality is always wrong.

May 06, 2014
It Is Not a Sin To Be Gay
by: Lance

"Exodus President Allen Chambers admitted that 99.9% of the thousands who went through their ministry did not change their orientation, including Allen himself."

It is not a sin to be gay. It is the act of sodomy and fornication between those of the same sex that is a sin.

There is hope for gay Christians and that is to repent for these acts and to be celibate. Just as sodomy is a sin for heterosexuals, they must repent for these acts as well. This is my belief until proven wrong in scripture.

Rick's comment: Hi Lance - your views are not based on scripture rightly divided and in context to start with so insisting that someone must disprove your opinion from scripture, is odd. It is impossible to reason a man out of a belief he was never reasoned into.

I know of many sex addicts that have chosen celibacy rather than feed there addiction. Some are gay, some are atheist, and some are Christian. Many of them pedophiles. As with any addiction, it is not the volume of addiction, but the impact of it.

How should Christians consider pedophiles that were born that way? If they marry a child are they living in sin? I am only interested in how scripture addresses this, apart from our laws that forbid it at the state and federal level.

My view of pedophilia is that they be celibate and repent. There is a serious problem in the US regarding this issue. How does God consider them if they feel they were born that way or maybe imprinted on the orientation after being groomed and molested?

Rick's comment: Equating and comparing being gay to being a child molester is an illogical dead end because they are not analogous. Pedophilia is a paraphilia, NOT a sexual orientation. No one is born with "an orientation" of being a child molester but there are two sexual orientations, heterosexual and homosexual.

Do you love us enough to hear our heart?

May 07, 2014
Gay Pedophile Comparison Not Made?
by: Lance

Rick's comment: Equating and comparing being gay to being a child molester is an illogical dead end because they are not analogous.

At what point did I make this comparison? I did not mention the sexual orientation of the pedophile.

Rick's comment: Hi Lance - you said that it's not a sin to be gay but gays must be celibate and then you mentioned that pedophiles need to be celibate, analogizing being gay and being a pedophile, i.e., both should be celibate.

Jun 05, 2014
Concern for the church
by: Jim

Thank you Rick for your discussion. I do not agree with you but I am listening to your point of view. In the discussion about Mathew 19 there was the mention about eunuchs being born that way. Jesus recognized them, did not condemn them, and pointed out that they among others could not receive or live out his teaching about marriage being a union of male and female. Do you not believe that the male and female marriage is the ideal and is intended for the multiplication of the human race?

Rick's comment: Hi Jim - I believe male-female marriage is the norm since about 95% of the human race is heterosexual. Yet anecdotal evidence indicates gay marriage is just as sanctified, just as blessed by God as hetero marriage.

Divorce is a failure of this ideal. Those not meeting this ideal are still loved but their acts should not contradict this ideal. Why can't those in homosexual partnerships, the divorced, those multitudes that can't quite sell everything they own to follow Jesus be in the church together as sinners but maintain male and female marriage as the ideal of God's will? To insist otherwise becomes destructive to the church, particularly outside of the American culture. What is more important, the well-being of the church or your objectives for homosexual as bi-sexuals.

Rick's comment: Because saved gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people are already part of the body of Christ, their wellbeing equals the wellbeing of the church.

Jul 21, 2014
False teacher
by: Ericka

I have thoroughly read the refutations and the arguments, I have read your Biblical reasoning' and I have come this conclusion.

You are the perfect example of why I will NEVER trust ANY church. You are a false teacher, period. Shame on you.

Rick's comment: Hi Ericka - interesting that you call me a false teacher without specifying any false teaching.

Jul 31, 2014
Translation Question
by: Tyler

What translation are you using when you quote 1 Corinthians 7:2?

Rick's comment: Hi Tyler - the "quote" paraphrases a position, a viewpoint about the meaning of 1 Cor 7:2. It is not a quotation from any version.

Sep 17, 2014
by: Steve

Therefore a man shall leave his mother and father - Genesis 2:24. How did Adam have a concept of a mother at that point? Maybe someone who created him was a woman.

Rick's comment: Hi Steve - Thanks for the good question. Adam had no concept of a mother at creation. Moses wrote Genesis 2:24 about 2600 years after God created Adam.

Genesis was utterly different than other religious writings back then precisely because there were no female gods and no mother goddess. What must I do to be saved?

Sep 17, 2014
by: Steve

In ancient Hebrew culture lesbianism wasn't a big deal since it didn't threaten virginity. Homosexual males were only condemned in Leviticus. It's written we are no longer under the schoolmaster (law) I'm not a proponent of homosexuality but I feel people loving each other is a far cry better than people hating each other.

Rick's comment: Hi Steve - ancient Jews were not greatly troubled by lesbians since no male seed was involved and the bloodline of Messiah was not in question.

Homosexual males were not condemned in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. Condemnation of gay men can only be alleged when the verses are taken out of context. In context, Lev 18:22 and 20:13 prohibit the idolatrous activity of shrine prostitutes.

Sep 30, 2014
Leviticus 20:13
by: Aaron Saltzer

If God was only condemning prostitution in Leviticus 18:22, why did he repeat the prohibition of a man lying with a man as with a woman in Leviticus 20:13 taking it a step further by adding the death penalty? There was no context in that chapter that would've given the hint that God was only condemning an idolatrous practice. Especially when it follows a long list of incestuous sexual prohibitions. There is no mention of idolatry.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - It always helps to understand context. You say "There was no context" in Leviticus 20; "that God was only condemning an idolatrous practice."

How did you miss Leviticus 20: 2, 3, 4, 5? Molech is the context, just as in Leviticus 18. Shrine prostitution in Leviticus.

Sep 30, 2014
Regarding polygamy and polyandry
by: Aaron Saltzer

Polygamy and polyandry were indeed prohibited in The N.T. of The Bible. I'd suggest reading 1 Corinthians 7:2.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - You are reading into 1 Corinthians 7:2 a lot of info that is not in the text. The ONLY prohibitions of polygamy in the New Testament are in 1 Timothy 3:2 and 12 and Titus 1:6. Those prohibitions are ONLY for bishops or elders and for deacons.

Does 1 Cor 7:2 exclude gays and lesbians from marriage?

Oct 01, 2014
Leviticus 20:13
by: Aaron Saltzer

So can we say that Incest was a part of worshiping Molech as well? That was also condemned before men lying with men was.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - we can say that incest was part of the worship of false gods like the gods of Egypt, which Jehovah and Moses prohibited in Lev 18:3.

Oct 01, 2014
Regarding polygamy and polyandry
by: Aaron Saltzer

Can you tell me what is in the text of 1 Corinthians 7 that would indicate Paul was not prohibiting polygamy and polyandry? I see nothing.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - Do you see the words polygamy or polyandry in the text or the context of 1 Cor 7 in any version in any language? Since those words are not in any version in any language in 1 Cor 7, we conclude that they are not the topic, not the subject under discussion.

Oct 01, 2014
Leviticus 20:13
by: Aaron Saltzeron

Where is the proof that incest was an idolatrous practice? That would've had to mean that God had to have called that an abomination or indicated that it was an idolatrous practice with one of the words available in the original language of The Bible. It would've also had to mean that God would've had to have a reason for condemning it in the N.T.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - Leviticus 18:3 links the prohibitions listed in Leviticus 18 and 20 to the false religions of Egypt and Canaan.

Please Google incest + ancient Egypt to get info about how integral incest was to the false religions of Egypt.

Oct 01, 2014
Regarding polygamy and polyandry
by: Aaron Saltzer

What was the subject then of 1 Corinthians 7:2? What do you think it was talking about, if not polygamy or polyandry?

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - the subject of 1 Cor 7:2 is fornication. "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication..."

Oct 02, 2014
Regarding polygamy and polyandry
by: Aaron Saltzer

Well, it sounds like Paul thought that a monogamous heterosexual marriage avoided fornication. Otherwise he wouldn't have said that. Considering The Bible is the written word of God, we can assume that God thought the same thing.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - of course. Most people are hetero but 5% or more of us are not hetero yet the heteros often read into the text what the text does not say.

So problems arise because people try to read into 1 Cor 7:2 that God intended to forbid every kind of marriage that isn't one hetero man with one hetero woman. The text doesn't say that and the rest of the Bible doesn't say that.

Oct 03, 2014
Regarding polygamy and polyandry
by: Aaron Saltzer

Still, it sounds like Paul is trying to restrict marriage between a man and woman, in this case, to avoid fornication. It sounds like he's advising every man and woman to be monogamous.

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - Or Paul is couching his advice about avoiding fornication in hetero terms because the vast majority of his readers are heterosexual.

Oct 09, 2014
Wow Rick!
by: Victoria

Dear Rick, When you said in your reply to Faith (near the beginning of this thread), - "You have never studied the alleged anti-gay verses. You are incapable of discussing these verses intelligently. You cited no scripture and offered no arguments to support your opinion. You have not a clue about the context of the verses you believe forbid homosexuality."

When I look back on things I wrote later and listen to the tone, I think - I didn't mean it to sound that way. I wonder if that is the case here because it sounded harsh.

Rick's comment: Hi Victoria - Truth is sometimes perceived as harsh, especially by post-moderns who reject objective truth so no one will perceive them as harsh.

I am being encouraged to realize that all of us are created in the image of God and therefore we are sacred. We are not just talking about homosexuality here, we are also talking about real people,some of whom are deeply troubled by being gay. Is it because the society has labeled them that they are troubled? Is God talking to some people that they should not be gay?

Could a person be gay for the wrong reasons the same as a person could drink for the wrong reasons and for them be sin? When we have a philosophical debate about something we need to remember to leave room for the work of the Holy Spirit. I make the mistake of thinking that reason and a perfect answer is what is needed and then make the mistake of not realizing the person who is asking the question is breaking inside and for them the question is not just intellectual but a aching of the soul.

I just don't think it is a pat answer, but I do believe Scripture is clear. I liked what I heard from Michael Ramsden on the issue of sexuality without condemning people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sLhHncgBs

See what you think - not that you would agree, but it's refreshing to have a loving compassionate discussion about the things we struggle with. Best wishes in Him!

Rick's comment: Hi Victoria - Here is my brief summary of the opinions Michael presents. He doesn't always use these exact words, instead employing subtle obfuscation to answer the question about gay marriage.

1. No one is born gay, in Michael's opinion.

2. God will change you, in Michael's opinion.

3. Gays should be celibate because Mother Teresa was celibate and in Michael's opinion, she lived a fulfilled life.

4. No one is born gay because arguments for biological determinism are weak, according to Michael.

5. In Michael's opinion, Jesus was very clear that marriage is between a man and a woman.

6. The brain is a muscle that can be retrained. Gays can change, in Michael's unsubstantiated opinion, if they're in a faith community and really try. According to Michael, with no facts to support his assertion, it takes 9 years to reprogram your brain.

The subtle implication is that gays don't try hard enough or long enough, to change. In plainer words, Michael blames gays for not changing from gay to straight. Yet many gays did work the Exodus program for more than 9 years and still no orientation change.

I don't view what Michael Ramsden said as compassionate or loving. He gave a pat answer - the old discredited Exodus International view, repackaged and reworded. It did not work for anyone in Exodus International for almost 40 years and it will not work for anyone now. That may be perceived as harsh but that is God's honest truth.

Oct 11, 2014
You advocate reading the bible, try it yourself
by: Andrew M

Please see below. There is no way to take these passages out of context. They are from the living word of God and are part of his instruction and divine authority over us. If the bible is truly from God, one must examine and accept ALL of its truth and not pick and choose verses that fit in with our culture or the way we think things ought to be.

Romans 1:26-27

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 & 1 Timothy 1:9-10

Rick's comment: Hi Andrew - citing the same verses over and over while refusing to study context, indicates you are a very young Christian OR you have an ulterior motive. Please remember: the Bible never means what you think it means while ignoring context. And Yes, every verse does have a context, 2 Timothy 2:15.

A verse without a context is a pretext for teaching something that is not true. If what you're teaching is true, the context will support your teaching. If what you're teaching is not true, you will make excuses for ignoring context. THAT is your clue to check what you're teaching and to study context, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Oct 12, 2014
Strong Effort
by: A Friend

Dear Friend, It's clear you want Jesus to say it's okay to be gay… So the fact that - yes - divorce and polygamy existed and were practiced does not in any way affirm homoerotic marriage.

Sincerely, homoerotic desires are as old as the hills… Having a roommate is not sinful. Loving someone is not sinful. It's sexual interaction among anyone who is not your spouse - and your spouse is defined to be someone who is faithful to God and the opposite gender.

Rick's comment: Hi Friend who is afraid to put your real name with your views - Polygamy and divorce and remarriage prove that God is NOT an absolute complementarian.

Polygamy and polygamists are blessed and affirmed in scripture AND represent biblical family values, 2 Samuel 12:7-8, 2 Chronicles 24:2-3, Deuteronomy 21:15-17. Divorce and remarriage is affirmed in churches from liberal Roman Catholics to ultra-conservative independent fundamental Baptists IN SPITE OF what Jesus said about divorce.

You folks who profess to believe the Bible do not really believe it. You just use it to push your anti-gay agenda. I believe you lack the guts and integrity to actually apply what the Bible says IN CONTEXT to your own life.

And that's the point. You profess to be a Friend yet you impose upon your gay brothers and lesbian sisters, heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, Matthew 23:4, yet you would never put that burden upon yourself.

You pick and choose, ignoring ANY verse which impinges upon your freedom yet you love putting grievous burdens upon others under the guise of being loving.

No thanks "Friend." We rejoice in the amazing grace of our loving Lord Jesus with Galatians 5:1 as our credo and we recommend it to you as the best way to live.

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

Oct 12, 2014
Get real, get right
by: Michael Riley

Let's get real Rick, you know homosexuality is wrong and demonic so get right with God.

Rick's comment: Hi Michael - how very interesting. You cannot cite even one verse which IN CONTEXT, says what you believe about gays so you attempt to psych us into believing your Disneyland theology without ANY scriptural proof.

Those of us who by reason of use have our senses exercised to discern good and evil, Hebrews 5:14, are not swayed by your rhetoric. Isn't it time you stopped approaching the Bible with an anti-gay agenda and simply studied to shew yourself approved unto God? 2 Timothy 2:15

Nov 02, 2014
Re: homosexual relations
by: Chad

you stated that it can not be proven by scripture you are sadly mistaken:

Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 18:22
Romans 1:27
1 Timothy 1:10
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

There are numerous other scriptures that strictly FORBID the act of homosexuality!!! Let us not forget what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah when Lot was instructed to take his wife and children; to Leave and DO not look back lest u turn into a pillar of salt. well Lot's wife looked back and was turned to a pillar of salt... YHWH "destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah" Gen. 19. - Chad

Rick's comment: Hi Chad - time to get a clue buddy. Click on the NavBar buttons under: What The Bible Says but only IF you want the Truth.

What must I do to be saved?

Nov 04, 2014
Out of context
by: Ryan

It's interesting you claim the bible is the word of God written by his authority from his Prophets. Then you say everything is taken out of context and refer everyone to a person interpreting the thing that is out of context, to a person using his own interpretation of what Gods Holy Prophets said and call that in context! Then call everyone ignorant for not reading mans interpretation of Gods word. Why don't you take Gods Holy Prophets word on it!

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Rick's comment: Hi Ryan - even for a young Christian, that is a specious argument. My words and your words and the words in the Bible are given in a context.

You prefer to ignore context because you prefer not to obey 2 Timothy 2:15. Instead, you assume that whatever thought floats through your head when you read the Bible must be absolutely true, regardless of the context. Therefore, it is very important that you remember this little saying:

Do NOT believe everything you think.

What must I do to be saved?

Nov 04, 2014
Your work
by: Aaron Saltzer

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong in any part of your work?

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - Yes, of course. I work hard to obey 2 Timothy 2:15 in my Bible study and I also study culture, doctrine, history, linguistics and religion. Beyond that, I carefully source and document the historical views of great Christians and scholars down the centuries, on the issues about which I write so it is clear my views are not private interpretation.

I should also point out that for the first 39 years of my life, on gay issues, I believed the opposite of what I believe today. It was only after prayer and reading and research and study that I changed my views.

None of the people who have made the more than 3000 comments on this website have done much reading or research or study of the issues on which they comment. That fact is evident in their comments. My personal testimony may be helpful reading to those searching for truth.

My Coming Out.

Nov 04, 2014
by: Chad

I have a clue whereas YOU do not. The bible is "God-inspired". the bible plainly states not to have homosexual relations and when proven wrong u state that the person "needs to get a clue" that's laughable.

Rick's comment: Hi Chad - Ignoring facts does not make them go away. Constantly repeating error does not morph error into truth. The human authors of the Bible never used a word in Hebrew or Greek with our modern meaning of homosexual.

So when people take verses out of context and act like they mean homosexual or when translators put the English word homosexual into the Bible, where God NEVER put it, that is an important clue that they have an anti-gay agenda instead of honestly translating the Bible. God could have caused the human authors of scripture to use a word that means homosexual if He wanted us to believe what you believe.

Yes, our Bible is God-breathed BUT no one has a right to rip verses out of context and then insist that the out of context verses mean something they did not mean IN CONTEXT.

Chad, I have studied this issue in great detail and apparently, you have not. Isn't it time for you to obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and study before insisting that I am wrong and you are right?

What we believe about the Bible.

Nov 17, 2014
Defining Marriage
by: Bryan Carr

This is the most twisted BS I've ever read. I read far enough to see you distort 1Cor 1-9 into some garbage about sexual partnering. You are WRONG and you need to GET OVER IT. If you want to live it then go ahead but this is pure BS and you will be held accountable

Rick's comment: Hi Bryan - If you are saved, you too will be held accountable at the judgment seat of Christ, for the false teaching you've embraced and for your refusal to believe and teach scripture in context.

Feb 06, 2015
Partner mean sex? Media buzz word?
by: Jim

.." also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

My Bible doesn't say that. "Partner" as in Montgomery Ward?

Rick's comment: Hi Jim - In 1 Cor 7:1ff, when they marry, EVERY heterosexual marries an orientation compatible partner - someone matching their sexual orientation. Do you agree with us on that?

The point of 1 Cor 7:1ff. is that God intends all of us not gifted with celibacy, to marry because it is better to marry than to burn in lust. I'm not changing the Bible. I'm explaining that God has made provision for all of us, heterosexual and homosexual.

Isn't it worth further consideration in case your understanding is wrong? As an honest man who loves God and the Bible, don't you want to go the extra mile instead of making a snap judgment which does great damage to your gay brothers and lesbian sisters in Christ?

Mar 05, 2015
by: A Brother

Unlike other people posting here, I'm not going to engage this conversation with anger but instead with an attempt to try and understand. In your article you state that we cannot assume what Jesus is not saying. To some extent I agree. However, I am curious...

How would you read and interpret Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5:27-28? If I am going by the fact that I can only accept the words Jesus speaks then I would take away that only men are susceptible to the sin of lust. Your thoughts?

Rick's comment: Understanding Matthew 5:27-28 that way is the goofy illogic approach employed by so many anti-gay Christians yet that kind of loony literalism is the wrong way to read scripture.

In Matthew 5, Jesus is addressing heterosexually married Jewish men with lustful hearts and roving eyes, who lust after the wives of other men yet who consider themselves without sin because they have not committed the physical act of adultery.

Jesus tells them, You married guys have committed adultery already in your hearts even if you haven't done anything physically.

Modern application? We're on the grace side of Calvary, not the Law side. Those of us who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are justified by faith. ALL of our sins have already been paid for by Jesus, God the Son, who satisfied God's justice by bearing in HIs own body, ALL of God's wrath against our sins when He died on the cross.

Jesus' payment for ALL our sins has already been accepted by God the Father.

For those of us who are saved, God the Holy Spirit has already applied Jesus' payment to our account, spiritually baptized us into the body of Christ, 1 Cor 12:13, AND imputed to us ALL the righteousness of Christ.

Therefore as blood-bought believers, we stand before God as if we are sinlessly perfect, clothed in the imputed righteousness of Christ our Savior.

That doesn't mean we can sin with impunity. It means we serve God because of the grace He extended to us via salvation and justification by faith: Galatians 2:20.

Mar 09, 2015
Gayness Is Wrong
by: Real Christian

The desire toward your own gender is as "natural" and "born that way" as an adult's desire toward a 6 yr old child.

Gayness is a sin and NO GAY that doesn't "go thy way and sin no more" will get into Heaven.

God gave AIDS to gays for a resin.

Rick's comment: Dear Fake christian - thanks for not using your real name - no need to embarrass yourself with such a major fail. Are you aware that fake christian-ness is wrong?

What must I do to be saved?

Mar 22, 2015
This scripture is referring to you
by: Sally

"That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done". (‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭26-28‬ NLT)

This scripture is basically talking about you in the fact that there will come a point when God will abandon you over to your sin and foolish thinking so that you are so blind, that you can't even see that it's wrong. You twist scripture to justify your own desires and see what your want to see. It's very sad you really need to seek God to be delivered because the enemy clearly has a hold on you're mind. I pray God will reveal the truth to you.

Rick's comment: Hi Sally - It makes me sad that people who have never studied the scriptures you cite, believe that you know what those verses mean better than those of us who do study. I recommend that you read, memorize and obey 2 Timothy 2:15.

P.S. - As a general rule, I no longer allow anti-gay folks to quote the clobber passages in their comments. I've already posted hundreds of comments like that on this website. No need to allow people to keep repeating the same verses while they refuse to study and inform themselves about what those verses mean in biblical context.

Mar 22, 2015
Interested to hear your understanding of these scriptures
by: Sally

Ok... Well I notice you didn't put up all the other scriptures I posted re homesexualty in the bible but anyway, I'm interested since you have "studied the scriptures" to know what do you think the bible means by the following scriptures:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭18‬:‭22‬ NKJV)

If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. (‭Leviticus‬ ‭20‬:‭13‬ NKJV)

Rick's comment: Hi Sally - I'm including an in depth Bible study to answer each of your questions. I hope this information is helpful in your spiritual journey.

Lev 18:22 and 20:13 describe shrine prostitutes, NOT gay men or lesbians

That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. (‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭26-28‬ NLT)

Rick's comment: Rom 1:26-27 describe shrine prostitutes, NOT gays or lesbians.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (‭I Corinthians‬ ‭6‬:‭9-10‬ NKJV)

Rick's comment: Malakoi never means gay or lesbian in the Bible

Arsenokoitai never means gay or lesbian in the Bible

And there were also sodomites in the land: and they did according to all the abominations of the nations which the Lord cast out before the children of Israel. (‭1 Kings‬ ‭14‬:‭24‬ KJV)

Rick's comment: Sodomite never means gay or lesbian in the Bible

Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. (‭I Corinthians‬ ‭7‬:‭2-3‬ NKJV)

Rick's comment: Does 1 Cor 7:2 exclude gays and lesbians from marriage?

But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." (‭Mark‬ ‭10‬:‭6-9‬ NKJV)

Rick's comment: Mark 10 - Is gay marriage scriptural?

Mar 22, 2015
Re your explanations of the scriptures
by: Sally

Ok so I've had a read through the links you've posted to justify homosexuality and I've noticed its mostly men's opinions and quotes instead of actual scriptures. As a Christian, my guideline is strictly the word of God. Your main argument seems to be that the scriptures regarding homosexuality is referring to male prostitution, yet there is no mention of prostitution in those scriptures which makes your theory an assumption…

Rick's comment: Hi Sally - When someone rejects truth, there is no remedy. Unless you are a genius and an expert on the Bible, there is no way you could have read and digested the material on the seven pages I linked to in the few hours between when I posted my answer to you and you posted your response.

Instead of skimming, I encourage you to take time to carefully read each page I linked to. If you have a heart for God's truth, there are also lots of text links to additional info. Just because you haven't heard the information before doesn't make it wrong. Ask the Holy Spirit to lead you into God's truth on this issue. Wishing you the best.

Mar 23, 2015
Please provide a verse
by: M

Please provide a verse that says being gay is ok?

Rick's comment: LOL - Hi M - Please provide a verse that says it's okay for Christians to get divorced and remarried and divorced and remarried.

Please provide a verse that says it's okay for Christians to rip verses out of context and then insist that the out of context verses mean something they didn't mean in context.

Mar 31, 2015
by: Tom

Rick, You have me convinced. You make a great argument for polygamy. However, in all of the Bible verses you referenced as God blessing polygamy, I do not see the word "bless" in any form. He may have allowed it, but I can't find any reference to Him blessing it. Do you have any other reference to support his blessing of polygamy? I also do not find any reference to a homosexual marriage, monogamous or polygamous. Homosexual marriage is an invention of man.

Rick's comment: Hi Tom - If you cannot find the word, bless, in relation to polygamy, does that mean God didn't bless it? For example, we have Jacob who inherited the Abrahamic blessing and his four wives. God chose to use the twelve sons of that polygamous marriage to four wives to form the nation of Israel.

Would you seriously argue that God did not bless that polygamous marriage, that God was against that marriage? If He was, couldn't He have found a better way to show His disapproval than forming the nation of Israel from the offspring of four polygamous wives?

Abraham and Sarah were polygamists AND they enjoyed an incestuous brother-sister marriage which lasted about 127 years. When they couldn't conceive a child, God intervened and blessed them with Isaac AND gave Abraham's blessings to Isaac. Would you seriously argue that God did not bless their incestuous polygamous union?

Besides being an incestuous polygamist, Abraham had concubines with whom he had sex and with whom he sired children, Genesis 25:1-6. After Sarah died, Abraham married his favorite concubine, Keturah. The point is that what is often taught in modern evangelical and fundamentalist churches about sexual matters is far different than the biblical family values of Abraham's time.

Instead of looking for homosexual marriages in the Bible, how about looking for Ford pickup trucks and Boeing 757s and heterosexual marriages performed by a denominationally affiliated pastor in a church building. All of those are missing from the Bible too.

If we're going to be absolutely biblical about our personal transportation, using only what we find in the Bible, we can walk or ride a camel or mule or horse. Or we can use a boat or ride in an ox drawn cart or a horse drawn chariot. Using your rationale, we cannot use combustion engines of any kind because those are not mentioned in the Bible.

The point is, God is a God of wisdom and might and common sense. Gays and lesbians have the same needs as heterosexuals. But since we're not heterosexual, God's way for us is an orientation compatible partner. For heterosexuals, an orientation compatible partner is an opposite sex partner. For gays, an orientation compatible partner is a same sex partner.

If the federal government passed a law outlawing heterosexual marriage, would most saved Bible believing heterosexuals get divorced and live celibate lives? Of course not. Yet that is what most saved Bible believing Christians believe gays should do. If you folks wouldn't do that, why do you expect us to do that? I'm asking a common sense question. Answers anyone?

Apr 02, 2015
by: Tom

Rick, I still wonder what your opinion of polygamous and incestuous marriage in today's society is since you seem to justify homosexual marriage based primarily on these other practices in the Old Testament.

Rick's comment: Hi Tom - I do not justify gay marriage based on OT polygamy practices. Instead, I point out that since God affirmed polygamy and polygamists in the OT, that indicates that God is NOT an absolute complementation.

If God is not an absolute complementation (the belief that God will only bless a one man with one woman for life marriage), then the Bible doesn't teach that and modern Christians should not use that false teaching against their gay brothers and lesbian sisters.

Of course, I am against incestuous marriage and polygamous marriage today. My views are found on this page. Polygamy discussion.

I'm not sure I equate the invention of a car or airplane with creating new moral standards. BTW, I am not trying to be adversarial. I am just searching for answers.

Rick's comment: And of course, I didn't equate those things. I merely applied the logic which insists that gays MUST find proof in the Bible that it's okay to be gay but anti-gay Christians who make that demand of us NEVER apply that standard to ANYTHING in their own lives.

Apr 06, 2015
God sent the flood because of violence and homosexual marriage
by: dan from ohio

Try looking up Homosexual marriage in the Midrash, The Babylonian Talmud, the pseudo religious book The Book of Enoch all state the generation of the flood had men marrying men and man on man sex - anal sex, this was one reason God sent the flood. Better learn the jewish writing before you push homosexuality.

Rick's comment: Hi Dan - it helps to read thoroughly before drawing conclusions. Your conclusions are not Bible based because the Bible is silent about homosexual marriage being linked to the flood.

Likewise, what is alleged to be homosexual activity in Sodom had nothing to do with being gay. What happened in Sodom was an attempted gang rape of angels by the heterosexual men of Sodom. Please remember, God puts a committed faithful marriage partnership, gay or not gay, in a class apart from adulterers, prostitutes and rapists.

Just as we do not evaluate heterosexual sexuality based on biblical stories about heterosexual rape, Genesis 34:1-2, Judges 19:24-25, 20:5, 2 Samuel 13:1-2, 11-14, so we do not evaluate homosexuality based on biblical stories about attempted gang rape, Genesis 19, and actual gang rape, Judges 19.

The book of Enoch in its current form was written around 200 BC. Second Enoch was written in Egypt in the late first century AD, therefore the books of Enoch had multiple authors, none of whom was the biblical Enoch of Genesis 5:21-24.

The books attributed to Enoch are called pseudepigrapha = false writings, because they are falsely attributed to a famous biblical character but in reality, they were written about three thousand years after the biblical Enoch was taken to heaven by God, Genesis 5:21-24. The biblical Enoch was not the author of the books which bear his name. Enoch was born 622 years after the creation of Adam or about 3400 years before the birth of Christ.

The bottom line: Noah's flood happened in 2348 BC. The destruction of Sodom happened around 1892 BC. For more than 2000 years AFTER Noah's flood and for about 1800 years AFTER the destruction of Sodom, the human authors of the Old Testament and Jewish authors outside the Bible said nothing about homosexuality or same sex marriage being linked to Noah's flood or the destruction of Sodom.

The unbiblical view you propose, aka, the Jewish reinterpretation of Sodom, began to be discussed in Jewish oral tradition in the century before Christ and was finally written down in the Babylonian Talmud more than a century AFTER the resurrection of Christ. I provide more details about that on this page of my website.

Jewish reinterpretation of Sodom

Apr 07, 2015
Twisted Christians
by: Ron Kap

I have read a lot of twisting of the scripture to fit the gay agenda here. Misinterpreting the bible will still land you in hell. Repent now why you still can. Praying for you twisted Christians to see the light.

Rick's comment: Hi Ron - I see our work is not even close to being done, as long as guys like you refuse to read and study the Bible in context AND then consign us to hell for disagreeing with your ignorance. LOL - your comment made me smile and shake my head

Apr 08, 2015
So blinded
by: Fred

The gay community is so blinded. I feel sorry for you people. You twist and turn scripture to try and make your way right. It has never been the right way and never will be. Quit taking the word of God out of context. It's simple. Man and woman! Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. May God have mercy on your souls and may your eyes be open before the end. Repent and turn from your wickedness.

Rick's comment: Hi Fred - When God saved me so many years ago, He put within my heart an almost unquenchable thirst for the scriptures rightly divided, 2 Timothy 2:15. Did you get that when you got saved?

I wonder if you've considered these truths:

1. Just because you've never heard a truth before doesn't mean it's not true.

2. Just because you believe God has nothing more to show you in the Bible, doesn't mean God has nothing more to show you in the Bible.

What must I do to be saved?

Apr 09, 2015
Stuff - you worship a book
by: Amy

Rick: You said to another poster that your work still isn't done. I agree. You and most who comment here seem to worship a book. You as well mentioned in the last comment that just because one thinks they have learned all doesn't mean they don't have more to learn. Yes! That is wonderful and true. I think you need to maybe take your own advice because it's great advice!! I finally realized that the issue here is that you and most of your commenters are one in the same. You all worship a book and think you're right. I imagine that is the reason behind all the hostility and rudeness that you mutually perpetrate on each other.

Rick's comment: Hi Amy - From the time the book of Job was written about 3900 years ago and down to the first century AD, when our New Testament was written, believers have always encouraged people to pay heed to what scripture says.

I'm not sure how you segue from that to accusing me and others with whom you disagree, of worshiping a book. I cannot follow your logic which may indicate that your accusation is based on emotion instead of logic. As always, I wish you the best.

Jun 01, 2015
Response to your rebuttle to Ken
by: Bob

Rick, after reading your rebuttle of Ken let me say first that I am glad you are still Christian and have not abandoned the faith as the stats indicate most LGBT have. But I would like to offer my input without provoking you to some of the responses and condescension you wrote to others.

Your quote: Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel."

is spot on and I am equally critical of those who ignore institutions like Ashley Madision that advocate ongoing sin as a lifestyle or christians who can engage in serial divorce or pornographic past times while pontificating against other sins. It is the very reason that the Christian community has lost credibility.

While I must identify and differentiate between sinful and non-sinful behavior to draw closer to God, I as Christian do not have the authority to even declare that those who engage in ongoing sin are going to be judged such that they are exiled from everlasting communion with God.

I hang my hat on Genesis 18:25 "will not the judge of all the earth do what is right". But I also realize that the bible also says that we are responsible for the light that we are given.
But I’m going to spend some time in critique of your response because I am biblically commanded to identify what sin is.

There are many assertions in your arguments backed only by extrapolation of context and you use many old testament examples written by practitioners of Judaism under mosaic law and conflate them with new testament scripture written by practitioners of Christianity.

Rick's comment: Hi Bob - I believe a careful reading of my answer to Ken Silva will show that I have not conflated Mosaic law with New Testament scriptures.

Much of your argument to Ken in reference to Matthew 19:3-7 is centered around the argument that Jews understood, and even God endorsed, polygamy.

"Many heroes of the faith practiced polygamy their entire adult lives yet scripture does not condemn them as living in sin. The nation of Israel sprang from Jacob's polygamous marriage with four women." The old testament also has examples of incest that not directly condemned; are you advocating and, more importantly, claiming that God is advocating both in today’s world?

Rick's comment: No, that is not what I'm advocating. I'm using scripture rightly divided to refute my friend Ken Silva's false teaching about Matthew 19.

"Your statement is factually inaccurate. Jews throughout the Old Testament and into the first century AD accepted and permitted polygamy."

"God is not an absolute Complementarian. In plainer words, God does not agree with your absolutist view and never states your absolutist view in the Bible"

You have an uphill burden with this claim as Hebrews 13:8 and Malachi 3:6 state that God and the son are both absolute and unchanging.

Rick's comment: An absolute complemen-tarian is one who believes that the only kind of marriage God will truly bless is a one man with one woman marriage. Using Heb 13:8 and Mal 3:6 to prove that God is an absolute complementarian indicates you have mis-understood the argument.

You have condescended to others that they need to study the bible and yet have missed that fact that God not only has the most right to be absolute but is the only entity who can be.

Rick's comment: At the risk of sounding pedantic, you do need to do more Bible study. I have never made the argument that God is not absolute. My argument is that God is not an absolute complementarian, that He does not hold the view Ken Silva held while he was alive.

The difference in laws between the old and new testament is because of the weakness of men and their stubbornness to understand God at the time. Jesus did say he came to fulfill the law but he wasn’t talking about man’s law which includes mosaic law or Talmudic law which excuses some forms of molestation and incest, or even speed limits which change every year. He was talking about God’s unchanging statutes.

Rick's comment: No Bob, you've gotten confused again. The Law Jesus came to fulfill WAS the law of Moses.

"We know Complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not God's ironclad rule for all marriages because scripture makes exceptions for other situations like (1) polygamy and (2) divorce because of fornication. The fact that there are clearly stated Biblical exceptions to Complementarity proves your absolutist view is wrong."

Divorce is not pleasing in the eyes of God but it is reserved for extreme exceptions like fornication and I would submit that even you would not someone to remain married even as they and their children are beaten to death. NO WHERE in scripture does Jesus advocate polygamy.

Rick's comment: Jesus is God the Incarnate Word, JESUS, Matthew 1:21, means, Jehovah is salvation. Whatever the Bible says, Jesus says so when Jehovah affirms polygamy in 2 Samuel 12:7-8, Jesus also affirms polygamy in the Old Testament.

"It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated"

This is purely your assertion and extrapolation of context. And concerning 1 Cor 7:1-9 there is an omission of convenience in your use of "better to marry than to burn" in that the words man, woman, husband, and wife are used in the verses just prior.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

Again, the use of the word "partner" is a personal preference not defended by scripture.

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh."

The word "TWO" here is fairly clear and fairly indicative that he is excluding polygamy along with any other combination.

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife" -1 Tim 3:2

"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife" -1 Tim 3:12

"If Jesus intended to teach absolute Complementarity, that the ONLY acceptable marriage is one man with one woman for life, and if His Jewish listeners and early Christians understood that to be His teaching, then why did the Holy Spirit and Paul feel it necessary to point out that bishops and deacons may only have one wife?"

You actually provided that ammunition against your assertion above in that Paul is calling for deacons to be above sin, which included polygamy, as to be an example for the church when in positions of leadership.

Rick's comment: No verse in either testament refers to polygamy as sin. You are doing what you accuse me of doing, stating "a personal preference not defended by scripture."

"That is such a condescending statement. You cannot produce any verse of scripture which in context addresses same sex marriage yet you've concluded based on scripture taken out of context, that same sex marriage is never permissible."

Again, you accuse of condescension when your only response is to belittle others as being unstudied on many responses.

Rick's comment: My only response? I have hundreds of pages of carefully sourced info on this website which contradicts the opinions of the anti-gay crowd.

There are many new testaments verses quoted by many on your website that you have tried to explain away. If each one of these quotes requires some kind of complex understanding in that you claim they aren’t translated properly with context then I submit we are all in trouble as the bible couldn’t be understood by anyone. But really what are the odds that all of these verses taken together can’t be read as written and they don’t really mean what they say?

Rick's comment: Bob, the problem is interpretation, not trying to explain away. No one has the right to rip verses out of context and then insist the out of context verses mean something they never meant in context.

You’re obviously a very intelligent author who is able to rationalize and who feels like you have no other choice by your experience of being born with an impulse most likely not of your own choosing. That condition applies to the great multitude of people, obviously who are mostly heterosexual, and whether of supernatural influence or biologically borne most of those impulses are sinful in nature.

Rick's comment: Edited to fit the space provided.

Jun 22, 2015
by: Markus Hannig

Dear Rick Brentlinger, you asked the right question, Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman? And may I add, did the bible define marriage as only between a man and a woman? This is a hot button question these days, dividing not only churches but also nations.

Also I agree with you that biblical references about homosexuality seem to leave room for interpretation. So I am very glad having the bible answering this question for us. Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh

Matthew 19:5 -and said, FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THEY TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. One clear reference on marriage in the beginning of the bible and one at the end and nothing in between about homosexual relationship being approved. Not a single word saying it is OK. Not one man who had sex with another man and still be used by God in a way to further His Kingdom.

Personally I am thinking you are taking a big leap of faith in this matter by saying, God wills it. My suggestion, pray very very hard about that and don’t act on it until you saw Him face to face and got clarification on this matter in person. Just a humbled servant, Markus

Rick's comment: Hi Markus - you assume that the verses mean what you think they mean. You are reading your opinion into the verses and then teaching your opinion as if the Bible states your opinion. It does not.

Jun 26, 2015
housewife, mother, grandmother and great grandmother
by: ollie

Christians, Why can't you, if you truly believe in GOD, believe he loves every one not just straight people ?

Jun 26, 2015
Jesus Words
by: SouthernBaptist

Genesis 2:24 - That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

Matthew 19:5 - and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'?

Mark 10:7 - For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,

Romans 1:26-28 - 26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.


Rick's comment: Hi Southern Baptist - Please man up and put your real name with your comments. It's time to come out of your Christian Closet.

Jun 27, 2015
Read with your heart
by: Craig

I don't think many of the people who have posted comments are cognizant of the simple message I believe the Bible contains (especially the New Testament).-why it has weathered the thousands of years and the evolution of society that it has existed in. When I read the Bible, in the Old Testament, I see a manual of survival and when I read the New Testament , I see a commentary on evolution and love. In the New Testament, the greatest content that survives... is the entreaty that we all love each other. As hard as it is ( and aren't all the commandments hard?) that is what God and Jesus want. You can disagree with same sex marriage, but if you truly love mankind, don't you want the people you love to be happy and have the equality that you enjoy? Stop looking for examples in the Bible to subsidize your beliefs but instead read it for the eternal message that exemplifies God- Love

Jun 27, 2015
No Positive Same Sex Marriage Role Models in the Bible
by: Mike

One major problem with your theology is that never once is there a recorded same sex marriage in the Bible that is condoned by God. Whenever the Bible the speaks of homosexuality, it's always in a negative way...aka sin.

Rick's comment: Hi Mike - So why don't you apply that logic to anything in your life? If it's not in the Bible, then doing it must be sin. Clothing, transportation, heterosexual wedding practices, the way your church runs, making snarky comments on a gay Christian website - none of that is in the Bible either.

Jun 27, 2015
You don't Know God!
by: Angela OBryant

Your a blasphemer of Gods Truth and giving a false image of who God Truly is- You will stand in judgement for this as well as for each person that your lies lead astray. The Word of God is quite clear and Jesus died to set you free from your sins - not to justify you in them. He will deliver you and/or any other person suffering under this oppression or any other if you or they would dare to actually get to Know Him- and not just about some false distorted image of Him- I'll leave you with the words of Jesus- Go and sin no more- and again Repent and yet again you must be born again and I pray that you learn what they really mean, as there is no one in eternity that has any doubt of these things.

Rick's comment: Hi Angela - Wow, I disagree with YOU on the gay issue so you assume I must not be saved. If you ever get over your pride, I encourage you to study your Bible in context, 2 Timothy 2:15.

Jun 30, 2015
We see the ramifications of sexual sin!
by: Gary

Every reference to marriage is ALWAYS characterized between a man & a woman. Gay relationships are never characterized & are never the norm in God's Word.

Rick's comment: Hi Gary - I agree with you that gay relationships are never the norm in the Bible. And we wouldn't expect them to be since we're talking approximately 3000+ years ago for the OT and 2000 years ago for the NT.

Polygamy was not the norm either but polygamy was biblically, culturally, legally and morally acceptable in Bible times, even for followers of God. In modern times, gay marriage is biblically, culturally, legally and morally acceptable. God uses His people in the culture as it exists, not as some would like it to be.

David and Jonathan were a loving partnered couple, 1 Sam 18:1-4, who in their last recorded meeting in the Bible, planned to rule Israel together, 1 Sam 23:16-18. God (not gays) decided to call attention to their incredible love in 2 Sam 1:19, where David describes Jonathan in romantic terms as the roe or the beauty of Israel. See also Song of Solomon 2:7-9 where the same Hebrew word describes opposite sex love, and David also describes Jonathan's love as better than the love of women, 2 Sam 1:26.

BUT, I find it amazing that to use the Patriarchs multiple wives argument used without referencing the fallout from these relationships...some we still reap the pain of today! King David, had major problems with infighting, rape & killing among his children alone. Not to mention it caused turmoil in the Kingdom when Absalom usurped the Throne, slept with David's concubines, et. Solomon; the kingdom was divided after his reign because the multiple wives drawing him away from God's plan. Probably the worst one is Abraham; He slept with Hagar having Ishmael & then the promises child was conceived from Sarah after God had promised them a child.

Rick's comment: Abraham was also in an incestuous married relationship with his half-sister, Sarah, Gen 20:2, 5, 12, 16. Instead of telling them to divorce, God intervened and blessed them to have a child, Isaac. When he was an old man, Abraham also sired multiple children by multiple concubines, Gen 25:1-6. How's that for biblical family values?

Move forward to modern times...we have the Arab/Israeli battle over the chosen people of God today. Why??? Because Abraham did not trust God over his wife's & tried to make something happen by another woman! So the world suffers because of Abraham's sin (of which he repented)!!!

Rick's comment: When God decided to form the nation of Israel, He chose the 12 sons of the four polygamous wives of Jacob.

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" - Romans 11:33

Jul 01, 2015
by: Julie

Thank you for posting this. I'm not religious but recently have had several discussions with Christian friends on the subject of the Biblical definition of marriage and listened to their worries that the legalization of gay marriage will damage Christian organizations and infringe on their rights and all of the moral qualms they have over the Biblical definition of "one man and one woman". Thank you for this brilliant, insightful and well researched point of view.

Rick's comment: You're welcome Julie - Christians waste a lot of time fighting over things they shouldn't be fighting over. I don't recall anyone in the Old Testament fighting and spreading division over polygamy so why fight and spread division over gay marriage?

Our job as Christians is to obey the Great Commission from Jesus, Matthew 28:18-20, and tell the world how to get saved by grace alone through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ alone and then, teach them by personal example how to be disciples of Jesus.

Jul 02, 2015
in the beginning
by: Cameron

Rick, When God created the earth and all that therein is, He made them male and female. This was perfection. Adam and Eve sinned, and thus 'by one man sin entered the world'. So if, in perfection, God made them male and female, and thereafter sin came in, bringing with it polygamy, bestiality, pedophilia, homosexuality, etc. is it not possible that these are a product of sin?

Rick's comment: Hi Cameron - What a kind and loving spirit you have, comparing gays to child molesters and people who have sex with animals.

The apostle Paul stated 'Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.'

Rick's comment: Truth about Romans 1.

I understand you used David as an example. David also had a man killed so that he could cover up having slept with said man's wife. If you're going to point to anyone as an example, you should refer to Jesus Christ, after whom we Christians are labeled 'little Christs'. Jesus himself said 'Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female?'

Rick's comment: What must I do to be saved?

Rick, as I read your per-version of the inerrant word of God, I'm reminded of the time when Jesus was tempted by the devil, wherein the devil twisted a passage in Psalms to support his argument. As plain as day, God refers to homosexuality as an abomination in Leviticus.

abomination - n. a thing that causes disgust or hatred.

God hates it. Not you, but what you stand for.

Rick's comment: Truth about Lev 18:22 and 20:13.

Jul 05, 2015
by: Sharon Current

Interesting reading. My own church, which is aligned with PCUSA,(Presbyterian Church of the USA) is being told by area ministers that we should condemn that affilliation and align with ECO because they are accepting of gays and may even cone to OK not only marriage of gays but also gays in the pulpit. PCUSA has also said that there COULD be other ways to salvation besides Jesus.

My feeing on this is that I can't believe Jesus would be OK if people who have never had the chance to hear of Him, were to be sent to Hell. If we have failed to spread the Word to everyone, that should be on us, not them. Therefore I think there could be another way.

ANyway, we have been told that PCUSA is sinning and we should all condemn them and have nothing to do with our fellow Chrustians! Can you believe that!

Rick's comment: Hi Sharon - God has already taken into account the fairness issue. He put in everyone a conscience, which tells them right from wrong. If a girl follows her conscience, it will lead her to trust Jesus. If she doesn't follow her God-given conscience, there is nothing else for her but judgment. More info about that on my What happens to the heathen page.

Jul 13, 2015
where in scripture that it says?
by: roy

hey rick, can you you give a specific passage in the scripture that homosexuality is permissible? thanks.

Rick's comment: Hi Roy - The answer to your question is found on this page. Is there any evidence of an actual gay marriage in the Bible?

Aug 05, 2015
Mr. Rick the Butcher
by: A.D.

Dude, you are butchering scripture with like, a chainsaw. Where did polygamy come in the conversation? Here are some things that are CLEAR in scripture:
1. Homosexuality is never endorsed.
2. The mentions of homosexuality, including the examples of homosexual acts or desires are ALWAYS in the negative & usually referred to in terms of being sin.
3. Though polygamy & divorce are forbidden in instances & spoken of negatively in scripture, both are in certain instances ALLOWED (not endorsed).
4. Homosexuality is NEVER allowed.
5. Adultery is NEVER allowed.
6. Fornication is NEVER allowed.

To call one's self a "gay Christian" is an oxymoron. In scripture, Christianity is shown as turning AWAY from one's sin, turning to Christ for salvation (repentance) & being born again (made a NEW creature who doesn't continue the OLD lifestyle). To openly continue in one's sin &, even worse, say that the sin is NOT sin does not constitute repentance or leaving the old lifestyle.

I can back this all up with scripture but seeing how you twist it anyway (which the enemy did in the garden by changing what God said & continues to do today), I'll leave this as-is. But anyone who diligently seeks understanding in scripture without trying to support an agenda will see these things as obvious. But that all starts with seeking God. God bless.

Rick's comment: Hi A.D. - Your reading comprehension misses the mark. Please read the article again, this time with a desire to understand. My late friend, Brother Ken, was an absolute complementarian.

Polygamy contradicts Brother Ken's view and proves that God is not an absolute complementarian.

You wrote that polygamy was allowed but not endorsed. Had you bothered to read my article, you would have noticed that I provided biblical proof that God Himself DID affirm and endorse polygamy - 2 Samuel 12:7-8 and 2 Chronicles 24:2-3.

It is not always butchering the Bible when someone disagrees with your view. Making that accusation is an appeal to emotion, not an appeal to the truth of scripture.

Aug 05, 2015
by: A.D.

A formidable opponent you are, Mr. Brentlinger. I SHOULD HAVE looked at my scriptures before addressing you. In Deuteronomy 17:17 God says a king should not multiply wives but this could mean very many, not necessarily 2 or more. The example of Joash taking two wives & being said to have done right in the sight of the Lord was a good example. You are correct. God DOES then endorse polygamy. I guess how many is too many would be the question but let's not forget that in the new testament it is said that leaders should be the husband of one wife.

You are also correct & I apologize that I did not read your full article. In my defense, I did click on a link that sent me directly to your email correspondence with Brother Ken (sorry to hear he passed on). And though Jesus doesn't explicitly say ONE man and ONE woman, He DOES, however, define marriage in terms of God making them male & female and stating that a MAN should leave his father & mother and be joined to his WIFE. He does not state that a man OR woman should be joined to his or her husband OR wife. This is clear.

Rick's comment: Hi A.D. - The Bible informs us there are at least three exceptions to the account in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24.

Exception 1 - Polygamy, Deu 21:15-17, 2 Sam 12:7-8, 2 Chron 24:2-3

Exception 2 - Celibacy, 1 Cor 7:1-9

Exception 3 - Eunuchs, Matthew 19:11-12, the first class of which, born eunuchs, includes people we know today as transgendered and gays and lesbians.


In plainer words, not everyone is intended to have a marriage which replicates Adam and Eve.

With all that said, you still use polygamy as a deflection, Mr. Brentlinger. Because if we talk directly about homosexuality in scripture then neither of us can appeal to emotion, which in fact you do when you claim to be a gay Christian. You have placed your feelings, and that of others, before clear condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible. There is still NO endorsement of homosexuality. However, it is completely possible to be a FORMER homosexual, a former adulterer, a former fornicator & so on, and enter into God's kingdom through the blood of Christ.

Rick's comment: Polygamy is not a deflection. The fact that there are biblical exceptions to the Adam and Eve marriage paradigm indicates that complementarianism is not absolute. Since it is not absolute, then the argument that "the only kind of marriage God will truly bless is a one man with one woman marriage" is not a valid biblical argument.

That is the point.

In the Old Testament, polygamy was culturally and legally accepted AND participated in by followers of God yet we do not see any OT believers trying to get the government to outlaw polygamy.

In the USA today, polygamy is illegal but gay marriage is culturally and legally accepted in all fifty states AND participated in by gay Christians yet some christians are trying to get the government to outlaw gay marriage.

The only verses used to go after gays are verses taken out of context because in context, the verses are not talking about two gay guys or two gay gals who fall in love and covenant to spend their lives together as a couple.

Sep 01, 2015
The Vedic Standard of Marriage
by: Steve

Unfortunately, due to many years of redaction and editing, the record of what Jesus may or may not have definitively stated that can be construed as a definition of marriage may be unreliable...

Rick's comment: Hi Steve - With all due respect, your opening sentence indicates a major lack of understanding about the Christian Bible. I am not going to promote that false teaching here nor will I promote the Vedas as adjunct or superior to the Christian Bible.

What must I do to be saved?

Sep 10, 2015
In love and with respect
by: Keith

This is not intended to be argumentative. I say this with humility and respect, and not with one ounce of hatred.

The bible speaks of homosexual acts 7 times, I believe. In each case it is condemned. The strongest, in my view is Roms chapter #1.

It mentions marriage many, many times and only man/women. It mentions husband/wife, mother/father many, many times. God made a help mate for Adam, it was Eve a woman. There is no reading/interpretation of the bible that suggests marriage is anything but between a man and a women.

If a man and man, or a woman and women married, how is it the many verses of husband/wife, or mother/father are to be interpreted. Who is who? What role does each play? How are they to "be fruitful and multiply?"

That is not spoken in hate but rather love.
God bless you my friends

Rick's comment: Hi Keith - The problem is, the Bible doesn't say the rest of what you believe on the topic although you assume that the Bible agrees with your view - excluding gays and lesbians from the joys of marriage to someone matching their sexual orientation because God doesn't mention it.

Let's apply your logic to transportation. The Bible mentions walking, riding a donkey or a horse or a camel, riding in a cart drawn by an animal or riding in a boat. That's it.

On marriage, you reason that since God, in your opinion, only spoke of male-female marriage, that means God is against male-male or female-female marriage.

So using your logic, since God only spoke of a few kinds of transportation, that means God is against using bicycles, motorcycles, planes, trains and automobiles.

In love and respect, why is it okay for you to apply that logic to gays and lesbians on a topic as consequential as marriage but never apply the same logic to any other topic in the Bible?

What must I do to be saved?

Sep 11, 2015
Help Me Understand
by: Tom Geisler

If you believe that God created man and women why did he make them each unique in their reproductive anatomy and through that anatomical differentiation require each other's reproductive organ to procreate? A man and a man can not reproduce without a third party and likewise a women with another women.

Doesn't this simple fact of God's creation disallow that a relationship between a homosexual couple and a heterosexual couples are the same or can ever be? I've always held that the human reproductive process is a great miracle of God. The union of DNA between to individual in the creation of a third unique person is just amazing to me. That child is the ultimate demonstration of God's love for us and the love between two individuals.

Rick's comment: Hi Tom - Every gay person I know is in basic agreement with what you wrote. Yet while about 95% of the human race has innate attraction to the opposite sex, about 5% of the human race has innate same sex attraction.

Because 95% are opposite sex attracted, the human race is in no danger of dying out and opposite sex marriages are in no danger of dying out. In fact, there are now more than 7.4 BILLION people on earth, 95% of whom are opposite sex attracted.

If God can accommodate and bless polygamy in the Old Testament and celibacy in the New Testament, neither of which equates to adam-eve marriage, why is is so difficult for Christians to find a tiny drop of loving grace to accommodate the 5% of God's children who are same sex attracted?

Same sex marriage does not critique or denigrate or harm or reduce or destroy opposite sex marriage. It is a matter of equal rights under the law, nothing more, nothing less.

Sep 14, 2015
Thank You But What about a Biblical Reference?
by: Tom Geisler

Rick, Thank you very much for your quick and thoughtful reply. I greatly appreciate the opportunity that you and this website provide to dialogue of this very important issue.

Please understand that I want to believe that God makes provision in his word for our brother and sister Christians that have same sex attraction and choose to define that relationship by how God and Jesus define marriage. My faith and my life are solely bible based. I prayed that your response to my original question would lead me to those words in the bible that allow for the same sex relationship choice and lifestyle but I found none.

Rick's comment: Hi Tom - I'm not sure if you're serious or being intentionally obtuse. Your life is not really Bible based. You do not base your mode of transportation on anything in the Bible.

Your assertion that you cannot find same sex marriages in the Bible and your implied, "Therefore you gays are sinning" is an illogical argument which you refuse to apply to your own life.

There are no heterosexual marriages in the Bible performed by an ordained minister in a church building yet you would never tell your heterosexual friends, "I cannot find it in the Bible so I cannot come to your wedding."

You would never say, "I cannot find trains, planes and automobiles in the Bible so I refuse to use those forms of transportation." You reserve that kind of illogic for gays and lesbians, while giving lip service to how much you love us.

You state that 95% of the human race has an innate attraction to the opposite sex and 5% to the same sex. Why is this statistic important to your argument that God accepts same sex attraction/action and marriage? Are you implying that the world has now reached a population threshold of 7.4 billion and we no longer require as great a procreation rate to sustain the human race and therefore by God allowing us to reach this threshold He by default is allowing for same sex relationships? I tried my best to extrapolate out as far as I could to understand this point and this is what I came up with but please correct me if I am wrong.

Rick's comment: No, many anti-gay Christians use two arguments:

1. "We are commanded to be fruitful and multiply but two guys cannot make a baby therefore being gay is wrong." So I pointed out that the human race has been fruitful and multiplied to the point where there are 7.4 billion+ people on earth.

2. "If everyone was gay, the human race would die out." So I pointed out that 95% of the human race is heterosexual and has no interest in getting gay married, therefore the human race is in no danger of dying out.

Next, you make a point by asking that, "If God can bless and accommodate polygamy in the Old Testament and celibacy in the New Testament... why is it so difficult for Christians to find a tiny drop of loving grace to accommodate the 5% of God's children who are same sex attracted?" I believe God make provision in His word for all Christians to love same sex couples and I whole heartedly love them and welcome them to my church to worship with me and my family always. They are made in his image just like me and God loves us all with the same measure.

But at the same time God very clearly enumerated in Leviticus sexual sin and "A man lying with another man is detestable in the eyes of God" is one of them. Again, I attempted to extrapolate out your intent for siting Old versus New Testament verse on polygamy and celibacy. I assumed your intent is to say that much of what was in the Old Testament changed with Jesus's ministry and in evident in the New Testament. If this is so then why does Jesus throughout his 3 year ministry repeatedly site and define Old Testament verse and again define marriage as between a man and a women?

Rick's comment: It may increase your understanding to read my page about shrine prostitutes.

If God temporarily blessed polygamy them he must have had a good reason and let's face it... God can do what ever he wants to do and he doesn't have to justify to us. We may assume that he wanted the population of his chosen people to grow more quickly for a certain period of time. But that's all it is... an assumption. And this may speak to your point on world demographics above. But no where is it written that He decided to slow down population grow by allowing same sex attraction and marriage. To the contrary, he condemns it in his word so you as a Christian should understand that it is very difficult for many, " ...to find a tiny drop of loving grace to accommodate the 5% of God's children who are same sex attracted... " when we are told in the Old Testament it is a sin and no change to this provision is addressed by Jesus or within the New Testament.

Rick's comment: You wrote: "If God temporarily blessed polygamy..." That made me smile so I appreciate your comment for that reason. For more than 4000 years of the 6000 years of human history, God blessed polygamy and yet, you call it temporary. LOL! I love your sense of humor.

For many Christian who abide in the word of God through biblical verse same sex marriage does denigrate and harm opposite sex marriage. Christians believe that marriage is a union sanctioned by God where He takes a man and a women and makes them one. If God also define a man lying with a man as sinful how can he sanction the union of a man to another man in holy matrimony and make them one? It is a theological contradiction.

Finally you mention that same sex marriage, " ... is a matter of equal rights under the law, nothing more and nothing less." Well, for Christian it is much more. God created it, Jesus defined it and the government has co-opted this holy sacrament, corrupted it and turned it into political power leverage. The government should get out of the marriage business and leave to the faithful to administer God's word. What about the separation of church and state? Is it for everything except what is useful?

Both you and me as Christians answer to a higher authority. Jesus said, Give to Caesar with is Caesar's and to God what is God's". He was defining two Kingdoms... this world and God's heaven. I answer to a higher authority but follow the laws of this world because Jesus commanded, "Give to Caesar with is Caesar's...".

Rick - I write all of these thing with a loving heart. I love all my brother's and sister whether Christian or pre-Christian, opposite or same sex attracted. I visited your website praying that I would find biblical answers to questions that are troubling my heart. I also pray that you find it in your heart to continue to reply and help me to overcome these theological hurdles. Thank you again and may God bless you and keep you safe.

Rick's comment: Tom, I pray that our loving Lord Jesus will help you overcome your theological hurdles with all the grace of an Olympic gold medalist.

Sep 15, 2015
Explain these verses then please.
by: Gordon

Rick, it seems to me your view is off. The bible says what it says, and means exactly what it says. Three verses is all I need to show that homosexuality is an absolute sin.

Leviticus 18:22: 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Rick's comment: Hi Gordon - I believe you and I agree that every verse of scripture is given in a context. You and I also agree that it would be wrong to rip a verse out of the context in which it was given so we could use the verse to teach something that isn't true.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 were written 3400 years ago, as Israel prepared to enter the promised land. There is no historical evidence that Israel had problems with two gay guys or two gay gals falling in love and covenanting to spend their lives together as a couple.

The problem was shrine prostitution, using sex to worship the false gods of Egypt, Lev 18:3, where Israel used to live or the false gods of Canaan, where they were going to live. God makes it pretty clear by mentioning Molech in Lev 18:21 and 20:2-5, so everyone would know what kind of idolatry He was talking about.

Leviticus and shrine prostitutes

Romans 1:27 - In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

This is Gods words, period. he finds homosexuality an Abomination, Shameful, and Detestable. So exactly how can you sit here and say it is anything but what God calls it?

Rick's comment: There is abundant evidence that Romans 1 is Paul's argument against idolatry. Romans 1:26-27 are two examples of idolatry, v. 26 describing the women who were shrine prostitutes and v. 27 describing the men who were shrine prostitutes.

Again, context is important. We cannot divorce these verses from their biblical cultural doctrinal historical linguistic and religious context and then insist the verses mean something they didn't mean in context. I hope this brief explanation and the links makes my views more clear.

Romans 1:26-27

Sep 16, 2015
Baby and the Bathwater
by: Tom Geisler

Context is very important and agreed that Paul was speaking against idolatry but he was also speaking against the sinful way in which they practiced their idolatry. You can't throw the baby out with bathwater to fit your narrative.

Rick's comment: Hi Tom - You wrote: "he was also speaking against the sinful way in which they practiced their idolatry."

Precisely! Now you're starting to get it. The context is idolaters practicing their idolatry by using sex to worship pagan gods - Not gays, Not lesbians, Not transgender people 20 centuries later, who do not worship the pagan gods of the ancient world.

Sep 17, 2015
by: Eric

MATTHEW 19 in the New Living Version:

"Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?" 4 He said to them, "Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together."

"Because of your hard hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives. It was not like that from the beginning. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sex sins, and marries another, is guilty of sex sins in marriage. Whoever marries her that is divorced is guilty of sex sins in marriage."

His followers said to Him, "If that is the way of a man with his wife, it is better not to be married." 11 But Jesus said to them, "Not all men are able to do this, but only those to whom it has been given. 12 For there are some men who from birth will never be able to have children. There are some men who have been made so by men. There are some men who have had themselves made that way because of the holy nation of heaven. The one who is able to do this, let him do it."

Jesus gives a hard answer here and acknowledges it is a hard answer. He sets out the ideal and says short of the ideal refrain. He describes either a man sterile from birth or impotent, a eunuch and one who is celibate for the kingdom of heaven. If we are going to put Jesus' understanding of marriage in the context of polygamy, let us also put it in the context of Old Testament view on homosexuality. The practice is to put it lightly discouraged. I bear no malice towards my fellow sinners. Recognition of sin and our compromises with it is necessary for one to recognize his need for a divine advocate, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ will insist on the ideal, knowing the less disciplined will be compromised, but also knowing living close to the ideal is humanly possible.

Rick's comment: Hi Eric - I encourage you to do more reading and study to get up to speed on the meaning of Matthew 19:3-12. What is a eunuch?

You are correct about one thing - eunuchs as a class did NOT reproduce and that is what set them apart.

Sep 23, 2015
Misquoting scripture?
by: Tim

To Rick:

Your comment:
It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

No where in 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 do the words "orientation compatible partner" appear. The Greek references to husband are male and wife are female.

Rick's comment: Hi Tim - Yes, scripture addresses the 95% of the human race which is heterosexual. Yet God also made some people gay and lesbian and 1 Cor 7:1-9 establishes the principle of partnership, that to avoid fornication, it is better to be married to an orientation compatible partner.

For heterosexuals, that is an opposite sex partner. For gays and lesbians, that is a same sex partner.

No, I have not misquoted scripture. As an able, competent, qualified minister of the New Testament, 2 Cor 3:6, I simply applied a scriptural principle in 1 Cor 7 to the situation gays and lesbians face, focusing on the spirit of 1 Cor 7 and not on the letter.

Some Christians are hard and implacable, without compassion or mercy, hewing to the letter and ignoring the spirit of scripture. To gays and lesbians they say, YOU must be celibate, never knowing the joy of spousal intimacy, never being married to someone matching your sexual orientation, never having the God ordained outlet to avoid fornication. These same people then condemn gays and lesbians as fornicators.

They would never shoulder such a burden themselves but they willingly put that burden on their gay brothers and lesbian sisters. Yet scripture tells us the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

Tim, can you find enough compassion in your heart to stop focusing on the letter and allow the spirit to give life to your gay brothers and lesbian sisters?

Sep 23, 2015
Response to Rick on misquoting scripture
by: Tim

Rick: we have different views on what meant by compassion. Christ's mission was to offer salvation, not by the law, but by belief in Him. If he were alive today, he would no doubt have gays and lesbians in his company. After all, he was accused of associating with those whom the mainstream considered beyond redemption. I do not have a problem with someone being a homosexual, nor do I think that a homosexual can not be saved.

I do have a problem when someone promotes that behavior as "sinless". It was clearly against rabbinical law, and Jesus was a Rabbi; he also clearly states that he was not here to abolish the law (Matt 5:17). "Applying a scriptural principal" to change the meaning of a verse is not an acceptable way to make your argument. Now that being said, accepting that homosexuality is a sin and asking for forgiveness will lead to salvation. Not accepting it is a sin and not asking for forgiveness risks being short of the goal.

To me, true compassion and love means I would not want someone, anyone, to not receive the salvation offered by Christ. Rick, I fear for your soul, and all those who believe as you do. Be careful in the path you choose.

Rick's comment: Hi Tim - You are assuming facts not in evidence - that the Law condemned gays and lesbians yet if I ask you to cite verses which say that, you will only cite verses which condemn shrine prostitution. No verse of scripture, when read in context, condemns two gay guys or two gay gals who fall in love and covenant to spend their lives together as a couple.

To support your contention that the Law and the rabbis condemned homosexuality as sin, you must take verses condemning shrine prostitutes out of context and allege that the out of context verses ALSO condemn gays. I don't believe you handle scripture in such a cavalier manner on other topics but where gays are concerned, you knowingly take scripture out of context to condemn.

Oh that all of us would be more like Paul.

"But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." - 2 Cor 4:2.

Sep 23, 2015
by: Tim

Be careful of the path you are choosing, Rick. For your soul's sake, I hope you are right, but I personally wouldn't count on it. Best wishes.

Rick's comment: Hi Tim - I get it - almost every Calvinist and charismatic I interact with employs the same tactic - refuses to engage on the problem of taking verses out of context to condemn gays and cannot bring themselves to admit the anti-gay presuppositions they bring to the table.

Instead, they issue dire warnings if anyone has the temerity to disagree with their opinion, their interpretation and assumes gays who disagree with them are not saved.

Oct 26, 2015
Lies! Lies! Lies!
by: Jeff

This article is nothing but lies. If you are foolish enough to believe this man's perversion of scripture, you are a doomed individual (you believe in a god that doesn't exist). God's Word does not change. It cannot change. Though we may not always understand it, it isn't open for interpretation (especially in the light of a social trends or personal desires).

Something else that never changes is the Enemy's promise to give us everything we desire if we will bow down and worship him (Matthew 4:9). The catch is that there is no room for God in such an arrangement. That's why the author of this abominable website has to push God aside, re-interpret scripture or create phony doctrines. It all sounds really great to the ear that wants what it wants. But perspective isn't truth. Culture isn't truth. Personal desire isn't truth. And truth isn't situational.

If you are TRULY saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, you want what HE wants more than anything. You know that HE is God and we aren't. You also know that He does not withhold wisdom from those who seek Him in earnest.

If you want to know the truth, read the scripture for yourself, put your personal desires aside (which is what we ALL must do in seeking His will), and get on your knees and ASK HIM. BELIEVE that He is going to answer you, and He will. Then it's up to you to live according to His conviction on your heart.

Rick's comment: Hi Jeff - Your comments remind me of what Jesus said in Matthew 15:14 - "Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

Accusing me of lying and perverting scripture and creating phony doctrines is often the dodge of a man who refuses to study the Bible in context. Implying that since I disagree with you on the gay issue, I am not "TRULY saved by the blood of Jesus Christ" is not standing for truth; it is spiritual bullying. Instead of presenting in context biblical arguments for your views, you make wild-eyed accusations and hope no one will ask you for proof.

No problem Jeff - I know if you could defend your views using scripture in context, you would do so. Obviously you cannot so you resort to false accusations.

Oct 26, 2015
Give it up rick
by: Amy

The answer is not In the scripture. Grow up.

Rick's comment: Hi Amy - sorry you're having a difficult day. As always, I wish you God's best.

Nov 09, 2015
To Rick Brentlinger
by: Lynne Murch

Just wanted to say thank you for this! I was looking for answers on here as was in a lock head with three Religious anti-gay fanatics on The Facebook religious Discussion group and you have put my heart to rest and opened up my eyes and you certainly manage to maintain bravery and courage in face of some harsh rubbish that comes your way. Respect to you!

Rick's comment: Hi Lynne - thanks for your kind words. As you are learning, the world is full of Bible blockheads who display no evidence that the love of Jesus Christ dwells in their hearts.

For a saved and born again Bible believing gay Christian like me, "the joy of the LORD is my strength." - Nehemiah 8:10

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." - Jesus, in Matthew 5:11

Nov 11, 2015
by: James

I just wanted to add comment to an article. I think after reading many Christian comments regarding same sex marriage that there are a lot of borderline closeted folks who lash out against gays and lesbians out of fear a deep fear within themselves that reveal a homophobe streak stemming from a deep seated want to break out but cannot. The more violent the reaction the more gay or lesbian the person very well may be. I am married and have been for 28 years. I have no fear whatsoever about gays and lesbians getting married.

Lets put all this behind us. Christians who oppose this are hiding the fact behind fear and anger about this issue. Like I said before, the more violent the response or opposition the more likely that the one responding in this way may be homosexual.

Its like you telling a real alcoholic that they have a problem. What do you think the response will be? More likely VIOLENT opposition to the fact that they indeed do have a problem.
Now try to tell that to someone who is not an alcoholic and they respond, "you know you're right I should slow down." Reasonable.

Nov 16, 2015
It is none of your/my business
by: Scott

Let me start by saying I am a heterosexual married man. I read your post here and your arguments are well founded. I personally do not believe that homosexuality is right BUT since I am not homosexual it does not affect me. It really angers me to see all these people fighting over an issue between one person and God.

Someones sexual preference is between them and God. Not them, God, their neighborhood, the local church, or my uncle's cousins sisters brothers dog. IF it is a sin that is something that the individual will have to deal with when they meet God. Both sides of the argument are NEVER going to convince the other side to change their mind on this.

Dec 01, 2015
by: Matthew David Landberg

Yes I agree that marriage according the bible is between only one man and one woman!

Rick's comment: Hi Matthew - You may want to read and review Genesis 25:1-6 - Abraham had multiple wives AND also concubines, with whom he had sex and by whom he sired children. Only one man with one woman in Genesis 25:1-6?

Jan 10, 2016
One Woman and Multiple Husbands?
by: Syn Holliday

I think the polygamy argument still does not support the Bible accepting gay unions. Please correct me if I am wrong, the polygamy in the Bible only refers to one man and multiple wives, and there is no indication of the wives having sexual relations between each other. Perhaps there is evidence of the customs of that period, maybe where the wives did traditionally have relations?

Rick's comment: Hi Syn - The polygamy argument says that if God could bless a marriage relationship that was accepted, legal and engaged in by believers in the OT, then God will also bless an analogous marriage relationship, gay marriage, since it is accepted, legal and engaged in by born again believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also, what sins many preachers seem to focus on is irrelevant to an objective discussion about what the Bible says about homosexuality, it provides no support for or against.

In Leviticus, it does say it is an abomination. "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

And the verse seems pretty specific to male with male. I don't recall any verse mentioning sexual relations between women as detestable. Could that be a clue to something?

Rick's comment: I provide lots of proof that Leviticus is talking about shrine prostitution and not being gay.

Maybe there is one example of a gay relationship in the Bible, seen in a neutral light? That would be a reasonable argument to contradict the Bible referring to gay men as abominations.

Rick's comment: The Bible never refers to gay men as abominations. You are referring to Lev 18:22 and 20:13, where the context is shrine prostitutes, not gay men.

Jan 10, 2016
by: Syn Holliday

Also Rick, if you don't mind, would you please discuss the context of the Leviticus verse? I hear it a lot, "you're taking it out of context," but I never get the kindness of simply explaining the context, just a lot of emotional defensiveness and personal attacks, "you're ignorant" and stuff like that.

Rick's comment: Hi Syn - I have a lot of pages of information about Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. My page on shrine prostitutes is the starter page.

Off topic but just another example, the Numbers 31:17-18 verse, "Kill every male among the children, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Just stating that verse, I frequently get the response, "You're terrible, you're taking it out of context." No I'm not, I merely stated a verse, interjecting none of my own words.

Rick's comment: Numbers 31 is the chapter which illustrates the weakness of anti-gay arguments. They love to talk about family values yet Numbers 31 illustrates family values in the Old Testament.

The point is, the anti-gay crowd will not own those family values today. Their view of family values is that everyone back to Adam and Eve believed exactly what the family values crowd professes to believe today.

Of course, for anyone who reads the Bible, that is silly. Family values in the OT and NT included polygamy and killing the men, women and children of nations you conquered so you could keep their virgin daughters for yourselves. Those are not family values for us today.

Jan 10, 2016
by: Syn Holliday

Awesome, thank you Rick for the response and links.

Rick's comment: Hi Syn - You're welcome.

Jan 12, 2016
Reading between the lines?
by: David

I don't claim to understand homosexual attraction but it is nothing new. It was written about in the Old Testament. However, your claims about Jesus never addressing same sex marriage are false narratives as much as those you claim are reading between the lines to say he opposed it.

Rick's comment: Hi David - That is argument by ignorance. Your comments give the impression you did not even bother to read the article you are commenting on. I do NOT claim that Jesus never addressed same sex marriage. In fact, I claim the opposite of that.

Homosexual Eunuchs.

Scripture is plain even though many choose not to accept it.

Rick's comment: That is argument by opinion. Asserting that scripture is plain while refusing to discuss context only convinces people who refuse to think.

In fact, many choose to argue with silly counterpoints about cultural laws like not cutting your hair or eating shellfish. Those were Jewish customs and laws. Just because we don't want to believe something is a sin doesn't negate what the Lord says about it.

Just because someone points out what the Bible says about "traditional" marriage and God's plan for sexuality (one man, one woman - male and female genders) doesn't mean they hate people with homosexual attractions.

Rick's comment: That is argument by obfuscation. Instead of offering a biblical defense of your views based on facts or based on what the Bible says in context, you offer opinions.

The very fact that people disagree apparently makes them intolerant and bigots … but aren't you doing the same thing when you try to force your views on people?

Rick's comment: Putting my views online equates to forcing my views on people? LOL - Did I force you to visit my website or post a comment on my website?

Jan 31, 2016
Thank You
by: Jess

Hey, I stumbled on this website recently (as in, 2 hours ago lol) and I want to thank you for the work you're putting into this and all other commentators who are defending this.

I'm 19 years old, and queer. I came from a highly religious background and coming out was particularly painful.

It warms my heart to see people like you and others who put so much effort in supporting and educating.

(Seriously, I'm sitting in Starbucks and trying not to cry.) I grew up loving God, but when I came out, my congregation more or less abandoned me (I was 16) and I turned my back on the church after that.

Recently, I've been trying to come back (a bit hesitantly, honestly. There's still a fear.)

But this website and this page in particular is amazing and I can't thank you enough.

Slowly but surely, I will return to Him. So thank you, -Jess

Rick's comment: Hi Jess - Thanks for your kind words. I want you to know that God has lots of helpful information for growing Christians in the Bible.

God loves you with an everlasting love and welcomes you back with open arms. What must I do to be saved?

Feb 09, 2016
Ephesians 5:22-33
by: Micki Field

Ephesians 5:22-33
God made clear, pronouns of he man (husband) and refer to him as HE. And Wife, women, SHE. So your point is a stretch. Live the life you want, but do not twist God's words and expect Him to bless it.

Rick's comment: Hi Micki - The issue is grammatical gender vs. biological gender. In the Greek language, masculine nouns (grammatical gender) include males (biological gender) but are not limited to or restricted to males. Masculine nouns sometimes include females.

Feb 10, 2016
by: Ann Toni

It has been written in Gen., that God created MAN, Male and Female. Notice that God explained that to us'. Next, he gave Adam a companion, a Wife.

So when Jesus defined the marriage, it was not only for a male and female, but a male with a companion, or a female with a companion. Male with Female, Male with Male, or Female with Female. Now that is God's words, not mine. That is Scripture.

Love You All - God Bless. P.S. The best part of all this research, is that you are looking in Gods words for God. Bless You - Ann Toni

Rick's comment: Amen Ann - Thanks for your practical wisdom.

What must I do to be saved?

Apr 16, 2016
by: Mbrown

Can anyone Gay or straight explain Ephesians 5:31 Whats the role of the female in a marriage. What can a male and male bring to this earth to match the ability to bring life.

Rick's comment: Hi Mbrown - I believe you are dealing with this issue on an emotional level instead of on a rational logical level. And you are using a procreation standard you apply to gays yet you do not apply that standard to sterile couples who marry or elderly couples who marry.

That indicates that you have a bias against gays because you want to hold us to a different standard than the standard applied to analogous heterosexual couples who cannot reproduce.

How can that be over looked. Everything we do involves choices. I think I would rather take God for his simple words that a child can understand than to speculate and miss Heaven.

Rick's comment: You are assuming that 1 Cor 6:9 is talking about gays and that that verse excludes gays from being saved - that since we are gay, you believe we will miss heaven because we cannot continue to be gay and still be saved.

People's feelings are going to cost them eternal life. I hurt to think that your seed thru a female relationship could put an end to cancer but will never have that chance.

Rick's comment: If I were you, I would be more concerned about the abortion holocaust which has taken upwards of 55 million lives in the USA alone, since 1973. How many world class scientific minds did we lose because heterosexuals kept giving in to their lusts, got pregnant and then used abortion as a method of birth control?

Are you aware that 68% of abortions in the USA are performed on females who self-identify as Protestant or Catholic Christians?

Who is getting those girls pregnant? It certainly isn't gay men and lesbians. And by the way, who is paying for their abortions?

God doesn't want any of us to be low information Christians. Being ignorant of what the Bible says in context is not a fruit of God's Holy Spirit, Galatians 5:22-23.

I hope you will obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and study your Bible. Many thanks for your comment.

May 15, 2016
Jesus's greatest commandment
by: Tony R.

I think Christians have manipulated the Bible to meet their own agenda as well as resolve their fears and ignorance of the unknown similar to how many Muslim clerics manipulate the Quran to justify the actions of terrorists.

What Christians need to remind themselves of is what is clearly stated in the bible Matthew 22:39 to love thy neighbor as thy self.

No where in the New Testament did Jesus make any exceptions to who thy neighbor was, nor did He condemn anyone and or types of people as many Christians, Jews, and Muslims do today.

May 16, 2016
by: Sue

Shouldn't we all remember that the bible was written over 2000 years ago by men who claimed they had the word of God. These men were from a different time, culture and world. How can we struggle so hard to live by something so outdated? These are the same people who thought it alright o stone women to death for committing adultery! Do we do that now? Not in the US.

Rick's comment: Hi Sue - Here at gaychristian101, we believe the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God. Yes, the human authors of the Bible were from a different time, culture and world. But that doesn't mean the Bible is outdated.

Some of the Bible was addressed to people living under the law of Moses. That time period began around 1450 BC and extended to the death of our Lord Jesus on the cross in the first century AD.

The incident you may be referring to, in John 8, is not the way things work today because we are not under the Old Testament law of Moses. The hypocritical men who brought to Jesus, the woman taken in adultery, did not bring the man she was with.

Leviticus 20:10 says: "And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

They didn't bring them both to Jesus because they were trying to trick Jesus into saying something that they could use against him.

The incident in the Gospel of John chapter 8 occurred on the law side of Calvary - before the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

We are living on the grace side of Calvary - after the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Jesus is resurrected triumphant over sin, hell and death and He is our risen Savior.

As born again Christians, we are not under law but under grace, Romans 6:14. We live to love and serve our blessed Savior, Galatians 2:20. Under Old Testament law, punishment for sin was harsh, Leviticus 20:10.

Under grace, Jesus Himself took all the wrath of God against our sins upon Himself. He died as us for us, in our place, as our Substitute. Instead of being stoned for adultery or punished for other sins, we can receive salvation as a free gift by believing in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior.

When we get saved, we live under grace, not under law. That is the life giving, life changing message of gaychristian101.

Jun 04, 2016
Read the whole Bible
by: Cjd

Jesus didn't say anything about being gay was wrong but his father did and Jesus agree with what the father had to say so in a way he did go back to Leviticus read Romans read Galatians read Genesis read the whole thing and you understand don't take bits and pieces you want to twist to your own agenda either he was right and is a truthful God or the whole thing's a lie as for me and my family we believe he's right.

Rick's comment: Hi Cjd - It is odd that you accuse me of taking bits and pieces and twisting them to my own agenda when I have this website with hundreds of pages of carefully sourced information.

I deal with all of the clobber passages in great detail on this website and in my 390 page book.

Jun 22, 2016
Jesus comandments to heaven
by: me in tn

If Jesus was the new law why go by the old testament for man n woman marriage.I thought Jesus will only k ow u by in as much his 2comandments not who u married on earth.

Rick's comment: Hi me in tn - The Old Testament Law was our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, Galatians 3:24-26.

That is the point of the article - to show that Jesus was not defining the only acceptable marriage as one between a man and a woman.

Jun 27, 2016
by: Rod

It is hard for me to açcept that gay marriage is condoned in the Bible. The argument that Jesus didn't say anything about it opens the argument that Jesus didn't say anything about beastiality, marrying animals, or polygamy marriage with a multiple variety of ages and sexes specifically so it should be OK also. The New Testament clearly defined the roles of a wife and husband. I do not see these roles defined in same sex marriage. Something of this signifance would definitely be mentioned if God condoned same sex marriage. How do same sex couples find their roles in Scripture? We all can agree that any sex outside of marriage is a sin. Sex is only approved by God in marriage. Jesus defined marriage in Mat 19. If any interpretation deviate from this is heresy and of ones own interpretation to justify the improper lusts of the flesh. This teaching is not of The Holy Spirit. I do agree some Christians are consumed with hate towards homosexuals, but homosexuals are guilty of cunningly altering Scriptures to fit their lifestyle. If this continues the true meaning of Scriptures will be lost. This has been going on for centuries and it is getting worse. I am a sinner saved by grace. If the Bible says it is wrong it is wrong. I don't care if someone else convinced themselves it is not. I will rather feel bad than change the meaning of Scriptures to make myself feel better. This is blasphemy and destroys the integrity of the Word. Jesus would of loved homosexuals, but He would of delivered them from their sexual sin with a profound Word so they can be free from it like He did with the woman caught in adultury.

Rick's comment: Hi Rod - Modern Christians are against polygamy but in the Old Testament, some of God's greatest heroes were polygamists, including Abraham and Jacob and King David, a type of Christ.

In the OT, polygamy was culturally accepted, was legal and many followers of God were polygamists. God did not have a problem with polygamist marriage. In fact, He blessed and enabled it, 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

Remember that David the polygamist King of Israel is a type of Christ. Remember that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is going to marry His bride, the church - composed of all the saved men and women and children from the last two thousand years.

Nathan conveys the words of Jehovah to King David:

"And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."

In modern times, gay marriage is culturally accepted in many countries, is legal in many countries and many saved gays and lesbians are gay married.

In the same way that God did not have a problem with polygamists in the OT - even to the point of giving David more wives when he already had eight wives, God does not have a problem with gay marriage in modern times.

Jun 28, 2016
by: Rod

Thanks for responding. I totally understand that polygamy was acceptable in that time and to God. In the new testament it seems as if this practice is not on God's good terms to hold church office. The Bible says a Bishop and a deacon must only have one wife. Can they serve in these offices if they divorce all their wives accept one?

Rick's comment: Hi Rod - I believe the answer is Yes. On the mission field in cultures where polygamy is the norm, Baptists, Methodists and lots of other denominations follow that practice.

In America gay marriage is legal. They have all the rights as heterosexuals do. I acknowledge and respect their govermental rights, but to say it is Biblically approved I just cannot do it. I also cannot agree with the notion God yields and accepts the practices of a culture. If beast marriage was accetped in a culture would God accept it?

Rick's comment: No, He would not accept marrying animals but I believe you are making a mistake when you asume, in Lev 18:22, that God analogized homosexuality with beastiality. HE DID NOT.

In Lev 18:22, scripture analogizes shrine prostitution (using sex in pagan ceremonies to worship false gods) with beastiality, not with homosexuality.

Polygamy has an argument in the Bible so does marrying young girls in puberty (Ezekiel 16:4), but no where do I find any inkling in the Bible that God approved gay marriage. Every Scriptures that I have read in Scripture that talks about homosexuality is in a negative way.

Rick's comment: No, all of those scriptures describe shrine prostitution, not homosexuality. None of those scriptures describes two gay guys or two gay gals who fall in love and covenant to spend their lives together as a couple. All of those scriptures are in the context of using sex to worship false gods.

This is an eisegesis not an exegesis of Scripture to say the bible condones gay marriage. If government approves gay marriage is one thing, but to say God approves it is another. If we truly go by the Bible if a person divorce other than adultery or fornication and marry another they are in adultery.

The explanations to approve gay marriage in the Bible are not of hardcore scriptural evidence, but farfetched possible meanings. Methods used are intelligently making the translation of certain words on this ambiguous and up for other meanings and making the homosexual act only sinful in pagan rituals. If this is the case will beastiality only be sinful in Temple worship?

Rick's comment: I answer that false analogy on this page: Are gay rights analogous to beastiality rights?

Can other words be done the same way to justify an act? There are no recorded gay marriages in the Bible. Once again if God approved of same sex unions he would of gave the roles in the marriage just like he did heterosexual marriages. Something this significant would of been mentioned. How shall gay couples live out their roles in marriage according to Scripture in the New Testament? What will be your answer if a gay couple ask you this? What are the roles of husband and husband and wife to wife in Scriptures?

Rick's comment: Rod, it seems to me you are straining at a gnat while swallowing a camel. Millions of saved heterosexuals including pastors, elders and deacons, are divorced, remarried, divorced and remarried.

There is absolutely NO scriptural basis for them doing that yet you accept it as normal AND you never demand of them, scriptural proof that what they are doing is based on the Bible.

Yet on the gay issue, you apply a different standard and demand proof. On this website, I list some gay couples in the Bible, whom God blessed, including Jonathan and David and the centurion and his beloved in Matthew 8.

Jun 28, 2016
by: Rod

Rick you never responded to gay marriage roles in the Bible. What are the roles of husband and husband and wife and wife according to the Bible? How do you answer this question to a gay couple? Why God didn't mention this? Gays were around then? Is it that God never intended for this to happen? The Bible clearly explains roles between heterosexuals, but not gays. There is no scriptural guidelines and instructions for gay marriage. Can you explain this? I read your explanation on my other statements, but not on this.

Rick's comment: Hi Rod - I have never regarded objections about gay marriage roles not being found in the Bible as a genuine objection. In Genesis 2 we are told that Adam needed an help meet or fitting, for him.

An help meet fitting for a gay man is another gay man. An help meet is someone to help you in your life so you can walk pleasing to God, so you can accomplish whatever ministry the Lord has set for you.

Jun 29, 2016
Gay marriage
by: Rod...

It seems as if those who claim God condones gay marriage try to verify this by the redefinement of traditional translation and meaning of many Scriptures that spoke against it. This is still not verication that God approves it. There are no God given order given in Scriptures for a gay family. You have acknowledged this. This Union must rely on the wisdom of man to define their roles. Biblically gay marriage is not even considered or mentioned only heterosexual. This affirms Matt 19 only intended men and women to be married. Gays were living back in that day. Why wasn't they married then. They were not married because it was not culturally or socially acceptable by the Israelites or Christians. This culture was based directly on their interpretation of Scripture of marriage. I don't think the early jews and christians were wrong on this matter. If the only backing of Scripture is the composed absence of God saying anything about it then alot of other acts can be done. I cannot go with the notion God approves gay marriage. This is not because I hate gays, but scripturally it cannot be supported. Am I supposed to deny the sound interpretation of Scripture to make others feel comfortable? I don't do it for myself why shall I do it for others.

Rick's comment: Hi Rod - Interpreting the Bible in context is not redefining scripture. Your quest to find gay gender roles in scripture before you can condone gay marriage, is only employed by you on gay issues.

You never employ that reasoning on any issue that affects your life. For example, scripture is clear. There are only a few kinds of transportation mentioned in scripture. By your reasoning about gays, if it isn't in scripture, you and God don't condone it.

Apply that reasoning to transportation. Scripture doesn't mention planes, trains and automobiles. Scripture doesn't mention motorcycles, busses and pick up trucks. It is therefore, unscriptural to use those methods of transportation.

Obviously that is a dumb way to read the Bible - just as silly as demanding biblical precedent for gay gender roles or gay marriage.

No heterosexual marriage in the Bible was performed in a church building or officiated by an ordained minister or involved exchanging rings yet it never occurs to you to demand that people stop doing those things.

Do you see my point? You apply to your gay brothers and lesbian sisters a false logic that you never apply to yourself or any heterosexual, all the while patting yourself on the back for being so sound in your interpretation of scripture.

Jun 30, 2016
Gay marriage
by: Rod....

Comparing transportation vehicles to gay marriage is not a good comparison. Transportation vehicles have nothing to do with Divine order in the family unit.The Bible says if I look upon a woman in a lustful way I have committed adultery in my heart. How many men are guilty of this? I love a woman's body, but I know if I do this I am sinning. I constantly ask God for forgiveness, strength, and grace to help me. The lust of the flesh is a powerful thing. It wars against our souls for us to given to it. I will not convince myself and compromise God's Word to approve it. I am not against gays. I have gay family members I love dearly and hangout with, but they know where I stand on the Word of God...

Rick's comment: Hi Rod - Your responses are growing tedious. You have not dealt with the article I wrote or the arguments I made. I edited your comment and am through with this conversation. Thanks for your interest.

Jul 02, 2016
adam and eve
by: tony

God put adam and eve in the garden not adam and steve in God's eyes two men lying with each other is disgusting to him.

Rick's comment: Hi Tony - Thanks for letting us know.

Jul 02, 2016
by: Rod

Thanks for your time and input. You might not post this, but I just wanted you to know that I am very aware that I am not God and all knowing. I am not God's assistant in judging people. Whether a person is gay, transgender, or bi I will still love them and treat them like any other human being. People are free to do whatever is in the law. I am a sinner saved by grace. I am very aware of my own shortcomings. We may not agree with the gay marriage subject, but we both love Jesus. May God bless you and may you continue to spread His love.

Rick's comment: Thank you Rod.

Jul 08, 2016
Non-Christian view
by: Micheal

Wait.. If this is in fact a "gay Christian" site why is your main point about poligomy?

Rick's comment: Hi Micheal - We analogize polygamy and gay marriage. In Old Testament times, polygamy was accepted culturally and legally, followers of God engaged in it and God blessed people in polygamous relationships.

We therefore conclude that God can and does bless same sex marriage in the same way He blessed polygamous marriage since in the twenty first century, gay marriage is culturally and legally accepted.

Also you addressed other parts of the bible as condemning homosexuality but that Jesus was ok with it?

Rick's comment: No, you've misunderstood things. Nowhere in the Bible does God condemn two gay guys or two gay gals who fall in love and covenant to spend their lives together as a couple.

If some parts of the bible are absolute truth and other aren't why would I read that?

Rick's comment: At Gay Christian 101 we believe that all of the Bible is absolute truth.

And how do you Christians decide what is truth and not? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what your saying but if the bible isn't ALL truth and "the spoken word of god" (as you people say), than why don't y'all just live by your own inner muse and ditch this whole religion stuff? Just my 2 cents.

Rick's comment: I encourage you to read, study, memorize and believe the old King James Bible. It is God's incredible love letter to the human race. Believing and obeying it will radically change your life.

I suggest starting in Matthew and reading the New Testament straight through to the end of Revelation. Then do it four more times. That should get you a basic grounding about Jesus and His truth.

Aug 05, 2016
Wickness of sexual SIN!
by: Steve Howe

If one can"t find anything in God's Word, doesn't mean it's ok! But one knows you have to have a female ovary and male sperm to procreate!!! If one wants a child any other way you won't get one!!

Rick's comment: Hi Steve Howe - The point is, we don't make the argument you inveigh against, that if it isn't mentioned in the Bible, it must be okay.

And yes, we do understand the procreative process and are not arguing against it. About 95% of the human race is heterosexual and a large percentage of them reproduce.

We do tend to back away from professing christians who demonstrate an abnormal preoccupation with sex, delight in dressing down their gay brothers and lesbian sisters and use lots of exclamation points.

Aug 10, 2016
The Greatest Commandment
by: Robert

I have been a Christian all my life. I have studied the Bible, and plan to continue to do so, all my life. I am a lay person, but I have attempted my own exegesis in bible studies and college courses. My understanding and beliefs have evolved as a result. I am sure they will continue to do so as more is revealed to me through the Holy Spirit and scripture study. I do not attest to the fact that I have full understanding: in fact, I believe I do not. I once believed that scripture considered gay marriage to be wrong and I am in transition to think that my understanding was not correct, and was based in fear, anger and partial, but well intentioned, understanding of God's word. Through all of my study, the one part of my faith and belief that has not changed is surrounding my understanding of the commandment from God to love, as emphasized by Jesus in "The Great Commandment":

Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Those two commandments have been working on my heart and soul over years to curb my fear and anger and judgement against others and myself, and have allowed me to experience a love for other people (heterosexual/homosexual, black/white, man/woman, greedy/generous, liars & truth tellers, etc.) more fully and more joyfully. It has brought me more peace. I know I am a sinner, and I have felt God's love and forgiveness more in my life as He has enabled me to love Him and those around me in a way that reflects His grace for me just a little more each year. I fear that the contentious issue of homosexual marriage is being used by Satan to separate us (Christian believers) from one another and from our realization of God's love and grace for us. My prayer is that we can continue to focus on the command to love (which hopefully we can all agree on with less contention), and continue our humble study of scripture with the knowledge that we will never have full understanding "gnosis". But, full understanding/wisdom is much less preferable than seeking a full love for God and all those around us (1 Corinthians 13). Our purpose is not to be here to hate, condemn, and judge one another (or one another's beliefs), but to love one another as God loves us, and thus reflect the Kingdom of God here on earth. They will know us by our love (John 13:34-35). May you all feel God's presence in your heart and draw closer to His purpose and His service in this world.

Aug 18, 2016
Is it bible say if u marry 2/3 wife u will not enter the kingdom of god
by: Joseph olaide samson

I want to now if person have 2/3 wife is it bible say he will not enter the kingdom of god?

Rick's comment: Hi Joseph - No, the Bible NEVER says: If you marry two or three wives, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. The Bible does tell us that a man who is a bishop or pastor or deacon can only have one wife. Men who hold those offices in a church are not allowed to have more than one wife, are not allowed to be polygamous.

What does the Bible say about polygamy and open relationships?

Aug 30, 2016
God's love
by: Juan

Jesus ment one man and one woman god the father did not aprove of polygomy just cause the jews did something and god did not outright kill them did not mean he did not view it as sin paul out rigjt says lusting of men for men and woman for woman is an abomination go pray brother god loves u u might wanna ask god threw payer god forgave the people of isrial he can forgive u jesus payed for our sin he took gods wrath god is certanly iron clad he wrote on stone david payed for his polygamy he gave it all to cheist before christ had come bible says he will answer those who call to him.

Rick's comment: Hi Juan - You and I agree that Jesus died as us for us, taking God's wrath against our sin upon Himself on the cross. He arose from the dead so we could be saved.

You and I disagree on the gay issue. I explain in detail on this website why I disagree with you and so many others. I encourage you to read and study the Bible more than you have so far. It will change your life. Many thanks for taking time to comment.

Sep 02, 2016
Love is correct
by: Robert Hosking

Accept people for who they are. If they are not harming others then leave them be. Where you can step in is when you see bad fruit of a relationship - regardless of the pairing factor. Bad fruit is strife, anger, hatred, jealousy, lust, envy, and the like. If that is not the cause then you have no cause to advise anyone or try to force your morality upon them. Regardless of the order of sexual attraction, people like what they like and you cannot change that by shaming it or willing it away with scripture. If consenting adults love each other and show their relationship produces good fruit such as kindness, generosity, patience, and love, then why would you seek to chop down the tree? Oh ye hypocrites be warned.

Sep 03, 2016
Polygamy vs adultery
by: Caleb

If polygamy is a valid version of marriage, then how is that different from adultery?

Rick's comment: Hi Caleb - We know that polygamy, a man having more than one wife, was affirmed and blessed in the Old Testament, according to Genesis 4:19, 16:3-4, 29:20-28, 30:4-9, Deuteronomy 21:15-17, 2 Samuel 12:7-8 (where God Himself affirms polygamy) and 2 Chronicles 24:2-3. Thus, we see that polygamy was a valid version of marriage although in western cultures in the modern world, polygamy is not legal.

Why is it biblically wrong for a heterosexually married gay person to have a gay relationship outside of marriage?

Jan 24, 2017
Self hate
by: Sarah Pike

I want to know from an anti-gay christian what they think someone like me who has always known that I was a lesbian even when I was in first grade telling my dad that I liked a girl in my class and when he said you mean a boy I was very confused. I had no clue what sex was at all at that time. But what they expect from me. To force myself to be with a man so I can not be sinful. When the thought honestly disgusts me like it would someone who is hetero and is being told to become homo. Or was I born doomed. Or do I not get the same happiness like they get because I was born different and unfair. We all just want to find love and that special person and have a family and love God. How come some people do not get a chance to get that when they are born gay? You really think in first grade I just could not wait to sin against God. You truly believe that is what we want to be doing just by being ourselves. Self hate that is what I was taught to do from such a young age. Sad.

Rick's comment: Hello dear wonderful Sarah! God did not make a mistake and you are not a freak of nature. You are wonderfully created in God's image and He has big plans for you and your life.

Please read Ephesians 2:6 and remind yourself that Jesus loves you with an everlasting love. If you are a Christian, you are already seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

If you are not yet a Christian, Jesus will save you from your sins when you ask Him to and then you will be seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

From that spiritual vantage point, God will begin to reveal to you His plans for your life, plans He has had for you since before you were ever born, Ephesians 2:10.

Your life as a devoted disciple of Jesus will be an adventure of faith and joy and challenge and adversity and triumph as you walk the path of His purpose for you because you are loved!

Feb 19, 2017
This quit is not reasonable
by: Vivienne Johnston

Then what is a A hamafridite. A baby born with both sex organs.

Rick's comment: Hi Vivienne - I'm not sure what you're asking. There is a lot of information online if you Google hermaphrodite.

Aug 19, 2017
by: Anonymous

WE ARE ALL SINNERS!! It doesn't matter if you are a gay person or a straight person or anything else. All that matters that we are ALL SINNERs!! Jesus says in his gospels that he did not come for the righteous but for the unrighteous that need him. All he wants is to have fellowship with us and as we get to know him and our father God we will ourselves grow into his likeness and he will loves us no matter what we are or how much bad we have done and he will guide us to the REAL TRUTH!! I wish people would stop giving an opinion about what is right or wrong and just try to help each other out of the EVIL GRIP OF THE DEVIL which is over our heart and get to know Jesus more and find out for OURSELVES how much he loves ALL OF US and that he came down from his throne in heaven and died for ALL OF US so that we will LIVE!!

Rick's comment: What must I do to be saved?

Feb 28, 2018
Hope your right
by: Adam

By now we all know Rick has an answer for every comment whether you agree or not. Nothing more I can say but I hope your right. If your not I guess you will have an answer for God too. Maybe just say God I read your word and I must have read it different than most people in history. Sorry about that. Yea that should work. Good luck with that.

Rick's comment: Hi Adam - No spiritual insight, no biblical truth to share? You're a post modern christian I suppose with a smarmy attempt at putdown?

I encourage you to read, study, believe and obey the Bible - it will radically change your life.

What must I do to be saved?

May 19, 2018
Hi there!
by: Lana

Hello Rick! I came here because my sister sent me a link regarding homosexuality in the old and new testament stating Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the new testament and my sister asked me for my thoughts.
I've never heard the perspective of a gay Christian, most of the homosexuals that I'm close to do not identify with any religion or faith. I do believe that it is possible to love someone but still disagree with their choices or lifestyle, because there is more to people than those choices. They are intellects, artists, philanthropists and much more and these attributes are not decided by their choices OR the inevitability of their homosexuality or homosexual lifestyle. Christians and non-Christians marry all the time (I'm not saying this is right) but that choice to marry a nonbeliever doesn't make their love invalid, they most likely loved each other to the best of their knowledge. No love is comparable to God's love, so if it's an argument of how well we can love each other then it's a wasted argument; we all fall short.

Regarding your conclusion of the complimentary being called into question because God allowed polygamy and divorce, how does that mean that he allows specifically homosexuality? Even if God allowed these other lifestyles calling complimentary into question, why is homosexuality one of them? Is it just because it's not complimentary that He 'allows' it. Also 'allows' is not the same as saying He 'likes' it. Isn't our goal to love God? Though He allows it doesn't mean it's good in His eyes. Polygamy and divorce are still sin, even if He allowed it. I'm not sure if your conclusion is assuming or stating fact.

Also does it mean that God is contradicting Himself when he makes frank negative statements about how He feels about homosexuality (they are littered in the comments but if you request verses I will input them). To make statements like that but also 'accept' homosexuality is confusing. Confusion is not in God's plan and it didn't take a book's worth of interpretation to understand His homosexual-related statements.

So then does it become an argument of 'acceptance' vs 'allowance?' Please explain. Also I'm asking respectfully so if you choose to respond, please do so respectfully.

Main questions:
Is God contradicting Himself with his frank statements about homosexuality since He accepts/allows homosexual mating based on your complimentary perspective?

Is your conclusion that homosexuality is amongst what He allows because it fits your complimentary narrative?

Do you truly believe that God, though He allowed it, approves (does He like) polygamy and divorce? If this answer is No, do you believe He would like other non-complimentary unions?

Rick's comment: Hi Lana - Sorry it's taken a few days to answer your questions. It was a busy weekend.

--- You asked: "Is God contradicting Himself with his frank statements about homosexuality since He accepts/allows homosexual mating based on your complimentary perspective?"

No, not at all. The fact that Adam and Eve were complementary beings does not force the conclusion that everyone must be heterosexual or in a heterosexual marriage.

People who are born gay make up about 5% of the human race. Gay marriage will not impact the population in any significant way. We are a wonderful variation of God's plan, not an abomination.

God blessed celibacy in 1 Cor 7:7-8. That is an exception to the absolute complementarity that so many anti-gay Christians insist everyone must agree with.

Your question assumes that the Bible makes frank anti-gay statements. My contention is that, when read in context, the Bible does not make frank anti-gay statements. I have tons of information on this website to back up my belief.

--- You asked: "Is your conclusion that homosexuality is amongst what He allows because it fits your complimentary narrative?"

No, my conclusion is based on the truth that no verse of scripture, when read in context, is anti-homosexual or anti-gay. If that is true, then there is no biblical reason to be anti-gay.

Every one of the clobber passages is talking about shrine prostitutes, not gay men and not lesbians. You may click on some of my NavBar links to read in depth information about why I believe that.

--- You asked: "Do you truly believe that God, though He allowed it, approves (does He like) polygamy and divorce?"

I used the illustrations of polygamy and divorce and celibacy to prove that God is not an absolute complementarian - that there are biblical exceptions to complementarity. All three are different than the Adam and Eve example yet God makes provision for all three in scripture.

Polygamy is first mentioned in the Bible just 44 verses after the account of Adam and Eve.

Did God approve polygamy? Yes, of course He did.

God formed the nation of Israel from the children of the four wives of Jacob. If God was anti-polygamy, He could have found a couple like Adam and Eve and made the nation of Israel from their children.

Polygamy in the Old Testament is analogous to gay marriage in the modern world. Polygamy was culturally approved and accepted, was legal and was engaged in by followers of God.

Gay marriage in the modern world is culturally approved and accepted, is legal in the USA and many other countries and is engaged in by followers of God.

God made provision in the law of Moses for inheritance in polygamous marriages, Deuteronomy 21:15-17.

God approved of polygamy in the message He gave the prophet Nathan to give to King David in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

And God approved of polygamy by inference in 2 Chronicles 24:2-3.

God says about divorce, that if one partner deserts the marriage, there can be a remarriage, in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15, 27-28.

You asked if God likes divorce. That's like asking if God like car wrecks. Divorce and car wrecks happen. It's not a question of God liking them.

Instead, it's a question of dealing with life and all the variations thrown at us, many of which are not always directly addressed in the Bible.

God affirms and blesses celibacy in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8. Celibacy is radically different than the Adam and Eve example but God still blesses it. If God can bless celibacy, why is it a stretch to believe that God can also bless gay marriage?

I hope this is helpful Lana.

Oct 08, 2018
Straight Christian
by: Merle B

I have been a Bible believing Born again Christian for about 25 years. I believe Jesus is God in flesh who came to suffer and die and rose again for my sins and by confessing this with my mouth and believing it in my heart I am saved. Just in case anyone disputes my faith. As I said, I'm not gay, I don't have any gay friends or family. There is no reason or benefit for me to post here except that through prayer and study of God's Word has shown me some simple truth on this issue. It began with my Mom. She is a devout Christian and I love her dearly but over the last few years she's vehemently attacked the gay community with posts and messages that are not of God. The anger and disgust (which she say is holy anger) I can see from her is not my mom. I started watching the reactions of Christians to this issue and the reaction was the same. Over many nights God spoke to me to seek His wisdom on this and Here's what He showed me. Many Christians have to believe being gay is a choice, there can be no alternative which eliminates God as a God of the impossible to possible. And because of that result I know that it's a lie of the Devil. Do some people choose to be gay? yes is it everyone? No. I know I'm straight. It's not a choice it's how i was created. So how can it be how i was made but 100% a choice for gay people it doesn't even make sense. It's not like being gay has a lot of social upside. Many gay people face horrible atrocities when the public finds out. If it was a choice then I believe a number of them would choose differently.
I know I'm a Christian and God does too. And we are to know other Cristian by their fruits. So how can I know Christians who i know are saved created by God and have fruit to show and have them say they've known they were gay from a young age and then I say" choose to be straight" when I cant choose to be gay? I too saw 1 Cor 7. Whether Paul is specifically talking about gay relationships is unclear but if i am a man and I dont take a wife and I cant remain single because i need sex then who else should I marry as not to burn?
If you eliminate the impossible however, whatever remains however improbably must be the truth. I believe that Christians should encourage loving gay couples to get married instead of being in a fornicating relationship.
But let's assume that the Bible says that being gay is a choice and it a sexual immoral one. Just go with me on this. The response of many Christians is still in conflict with God's commandments. We all have sinned the Bible tells us. and the penalty for all sin is death. So why is homosexuality made to be this unforgivable abomination to God? If being gay is a sin its measured by God with the same penalty as any sin a straight person commits. Sin is Sin. Second, Sin is the breaking of God's law. It's not my law or your law it's God's.
James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbour?
There are many verses that say God is the Judge.
Now there are 2 scenarios a gay person as a non-believer still in sin. And a gay believer how are we supposed to deal with both? Well since a non-believer doesn't know God then why are we as believers calling them an abomination to God? If God is our example then Ephesians 2 clearly tells us how to respond to those living in sin.
1 At one time you were dead because of your sins. 2 You followed the sinful ways of the world and obeyed the leader of the power of darkness. He is the devil who is now working in the people who do not obey God. 3 At one time all of us lived to please our old selves. We gave in to what our bodies and minds wanted. We were sinful from birth like all other people and would suffer from the anger of God.
4 But God had so much loving-kindness. He loved us with such a great love. 5 Even when we were dead because of our sins, He made us alive by what Christ did for us. You have been saved from the punishment of sin by His loving-favor. 6 God raised us up from death when He raised up Christ Jesus. He has given us a place with Christ in the heavens. 7 He did this to show us through all the time to come the great riches of His loving-favor. He has shown us His kindness through Christ Jesus.
So here God showed us loving-kindness. He loved us with such great love even though we gave into what our bodies and minds wanted.
So whether or not Homosexuality is a sin is for God to judge and for us to show loving kindness. Anything else and we risk incurring God's punishment.
So what if we have a brother or sister in Christ that's gay surely God says we are to judge their sin?
Romans 14:10
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
Romans 14: 13
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Romans 2:1
2 So do you think that you can judge those other people? You are wrong. You too are guilty of sin. You judge them, but you do the same things they do. So when you judge them, you are really condemning yourself.
Now you may say that 1 Cor 5 say that brothers should judge people inside the church. The chapter starts stating its a case of incest which even the pagans find detestable. So if the world finds a practice detestable then maybe believers should examine it. This passage to me speaks of common sense. If child sacrifice as an example starts happening in the church (because the world would find this detestable) we should know its not for the church. It doesn't say when there isn't a clear right answer Biblically to judge people in the church. There are many other verses that warn against judging fellow believers.
So I believe Paul encourages gay marriage in 1 cor 7 to living in fornication.
And regardless if being gay is a sin or not we have no God given right to make that call. We are however commanded to love one another and accept one another as we accepted by Him and let the Holy Spirit convict us of our sin no matter what they are.

May God use His word to shed some light on this issue because I believe the Churches witness and effectiveness relies on us understanding it.
May God bless us and keep us until His return.

Feb 19, 2019
This Advice is Unbiblical
by: Greg

Marriage is clearly designed by God between one man and one woman. (Genesis 2:24, Ephesians 5:22-33, 1 Corinthians 7:2, Matthew 19:4-6, Genesis 2:1-25, 1 Corinthians 7:1-40, Mark 10:6-9, Hebrews 13:4, Genesis 1:27, Matthew 19:6, Genesis 2:18, Mark 10:6 and literally dozens of others).

We were not created androgynous.

There are numerous passages in which homosexuality explicitly is called out as sexual immorality and sin (Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-28).

Sexual sin is also explicititly mentioned as being in a more severe category than others sin—no I’m not catholic but hdre is the scripture (1 Corinthians 6:18-20).

I am gay myself but I know celibacy is the only option. It is not even a debate for me. I am not perfect but I make every effort to keep myself away from such things and that is what every Christian should be doing.

This is not a risk I am willing to take at any cost.

Rick's comment: Hi Greg - You've bought in to the anti-gay lies. It may be a case of Stockholm syndrome, where you're adopting the views of your persecutors. I have a page about that.

Exgays and Stockholm Syndrome

This website is full of biblical truth which will set you free from bondage to anti-gay false teaching.

Brother Greg, I wish you God's best.

Feb 19, 2019
Could you clarify?
by: Merle B

Greg you say that Sexual Immorality or Sexual Sin is worse than others and quoted 1 Cor 6. This verse says nothing about God's view. It affects us differently and even may be more harmful to us but there is no connection that God views it differently.

Second, you say that my comment is not bible based and yet I quoted verbatim more scriptures than you. Please clarify which part you deem as not biblical.

Thanks. I do hope the Holy Spirit can give you wisdom and strength with this area of your life.

Apr 10, 2019
You are out of order
by: Beverly

Homosexuality is a sin, but it’s your choice not to fight against your sinful flesh. But, please stop trying to sell the world to hell. You make people out to get you or say mean things about you. You can’t push gay on other people and definitely stop trying to make it alright with Christianity!!

If you are gay and still seeking the Lord for guidance- I say good for you, but stop trying to change the Bible for your lust of same sex. Keep praying and guidance will come to you in the right way.

Rick's comment: Hi Beverly. Your comment indicates you have not understood our mission at GayChristian101.

For the record, rightly dividing the word of truth is not "trying to sell the world to hell."

We are not pushing gay on other people and we are not making gay alright with Christianity. We didn't write the Bible. We're just explaining what it says, in context.

In your search for truth, will you do more reading and give this topic more thought and study and prayer?

Teaching what the Bible says, in context, is not, changing the Bible for same sex lust.

What must I do to be saved?

May 22, 2019
by: Victora




Rick's comment: Hi Victora - No, God is not upset with you because you don't have a ride to church. God understands your situation and He is always with you.

It is important to know for sure, that you are saved by the Lord Jesus Christ.

What must I do to be saved?

May 22, 2019
I Tim 3:12
by: Mark

"husband of one wife" is a confusing translations and (as always) should be looked at in the language in which God gave it..... greek.

The literal translation says, "one woman man"...in other words a deacon or a pastor must not be running around with anyone except his spouse...

It is referring to "faithfulness" in the marriage vows. NOT how many spouses you have. The inference is that a pastor or deacon (if married) be faithful to the one spouse they have.
Check it out.

Rick's comment: Hi Mark - I believe it would be helpful if you replace your NIV with an old-fashioned KJV.

The KJV translation of 1 Timothy 3 is absolutely accurate and superior to the NIV. It is neither confusing nor hard to understand.

The Greek text in 1 Tim 3:2 does not say: "one woman man."

Here is the Greek text of 1 Timothy 3:2 word by word with the English translation. Click the link and check it out.

I don't know of any English translation which translates 1 Timothy 3 to say, a "one woman man." Even the NIV, which you seem to like, doesn't say that.

1 Timothy 3:2 in 28 translations.

May 22, 2019
by: Mark

I don't see that Jesus teaching that marriage is between a person with a penis and a person with a vigina has anything to do with the polygamy that existed in the old testament.

Jesus is not the continuation of the OT. He is the revealer of what the OT really means.

Matt 5:21-22..."You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment." NIV

Matt 5:27-29... "You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." NIV

It seems odd to me that anyone would equate Polygamy in the OT with homosexuality in the NT.
OT polygamy did exist. And it produced children from a man and a woman. Check it out.

Rick's comment: Hi Mark- I think you’ve missed the point. The anti-gay folks say that the only kind of marriage God will truly bless is a one man with one woman for life marriage.

The biblical truth is, God also blessed polygamous marriages, which are not one man with one woman for life.

I’m saying that since God blessed polygamy, then He can also bless gay marriages.

Abraham married his half-sister, Sarah, and their marriage lasted at least 120 years, with God’s great blessing upon it. Abraham also had another wife, Hagar, Genesis 16:1-3.

Abraham also had concubines, including Keturah, whom he married after Sarah died, and with whom he had children, Genesis 25:1-6.

The point is that a gay marriage is rather tame compared to Abraham marrying his half-sister and being blessed by God with a son, Isaac, through whom God sent the line of Christ, plus Hagar plus his concubine Keturah.

What must I do to be saved?

Jul 09, 2019
Gay marriage
by: Ron Welling

And all the comments full of hatred and fear and judgment is exactly why I quit going to church 30 years ago. Why are so many "professed" Christians so angry, so full of hate? Why do so many who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus do nothing but live in the Old Testament to support their hate and anger?

This is not what I see in Jesus - the only begotten Son - the Christ child. I don't profess to have all the answers to the questions - but Love always Wins and Love is the answer. The Love of Christ - the Love of His New Testament teachings. Nothing more, nothing less.

Apr 12, 2020
1 Cor 7:1-9
by: Kevin M

you state that these verses are;

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

But actually they are:

good for a man not to touch a woman.
2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

Nice try, but your interpretation and rewriting of scripture is false.

Rick's comment: Hi Kevin M- Are you saying that a heterosexual woman for a heterosexual man does not equate to orientation compatible partners?

Have you never, while explaining scripture to someone, summarized what a verse says?

You anti-gay guys seem to have a compulsion to argue. What an unhappy way to go through life.

Hey, why don't you start reading through my Romans commentary? It's FREE online - chapters 1-12.

Thanks for taking time to comment.

What must I do to be saved?

Nov 18, 2020
Jesus Was Really Gay
by: Anonymous

Jesus was really gay which was real fact by the way, and he had a lot of men in his life as well. Rumors had it, he really did have a husband as well. Go figure.

Rick's comment: Hi Anonymous - Have you ever clicked on this link, which I've provided many times in answer to your comments?

Has it occurred to you that God knows you, loves you, died to pay for your sins and rose from the dead so that YOU can get saved?

I encourage you to consider that and what if will mean for your life when you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and get saved.

What must I do to be saved?

May 04, 2021
by: Robert Bobin

The Lord, made it perfectly clear, that the sin of homosexuality, is an abomination to Him. Anyone who believes otherwise, is mistaken.

Rick's comment: Hi Robert- The most important thing is, What does the Bible say, in context?

In context, no verse of scripture condemns anyone for being homosexual.

There is a lot of FREE information on this website if you are serious about discovering God's truth.

Sep 17, 2021
Stretching the truth
by: Joe Hill

The justification of sin doesn’t change truth. Homosexuality was, is and always will be sin. Sorry. There is no escaping it no matter how hard you try to justify it. Romans 1:18-32 leaves no ambiguity. Sorry. But you have a way out. You can DENY yourself, pick up your cross DAILY and follow Jesus.

Rick's comment: Hi Joe- The most important thing is, Where does the Bible say what you believe, in context?

Scripture has, at a minimum, biblical, cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic, literary and religious context.

Bible believers factor in those contexts instead of assuming the Bible agrees with their opinions.

I have more than 1000 pages of word by word, phrase by phrase, verse by verse commentary on Romans chapters 1 - 12 on this website.

I hope you will take time to look at my comments on Romans 1 so you get an in context biblical view.

Romans Commentary Online

Joe wrote: Romans 1:18-32 leaves no ambiguity.

You assume that the Bible reflects your opinions and your false presuppositions about Romans 1. It does not.

You assume that I am not following Jesus daily. As a matter of fact I am.

That we disagree on the gay issue does not mean you are right. In this case, it means you are wrong.

In context, no verse of scripture in the Bible, condemns anyone for being homosexual.

There is a lot of excellent, biblical, FREE information on this website if you are serious about discovering God's truth.

What must I do to be saved?

Oct 15, 2021
God loves all
by: Douglas

First, I don't believe in arguing the holy scriptures. God is love and we were told to love one another so saying hurtful things to each other is not The Lord's intension. I can rightly devide the scriptures and cause 5% of people to hate me or I can scramble the scriptures to say whatever I want but I won't. I will point out that each man is to work out his/her own souls salvation and all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all that you need will be given to you. No man can seek the law and be justified but if he/she seeks Jesus Christ first he will lead you and guide you into the full and complete truth. Accept Jesus, seek and you will find, knock and it will be opened. As we pray and get closer to Jesus the holy spirit will reveal to you any wrong that needs to be made right and if we are honest and just we will turn from any sin the holy spirit reveals. So pray , seek his face, draw nigh to him and he will draw night to you, God bless the reader of my comment. I paraphrased some scripture but if you want the book and verses I will send them. Let the word be hidden in your heart amen.

Rick's comment: Hi Douglas- Thanks for commenting.

What must I do to be saved?

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