Are you misquoting scripture about Jonathan and David?
Rick Brentlinger Answers -
Thanks Beau, for asking some good questions.
I'm happy to provide answers which are faithful to Biblical truth.
"“And it came to pass, when he (David) had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father’s house. Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.” I Samuel 18:1-3, KJV
The Hebrew word translated in English as knit: “the soul of Jonathan was (qashar) knit with the (nephesh) soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own (nephesh) soul.”
Qashar (knit), when linked with nephesh, (soul) as here, refers to being romantically in love with someone. Nephesh conveys the idea of soul, self, life, desire, emotion, passion. In this context, nephesh refers to the seat of emotions and passions while knit describes an activity which involves the mind, the will and the character.
When the nephesh-soul of Jonathan is qashar, knit, bound, tied to the nephesh/soul of David, we have a strong statement from the Holy Spirit, the ultimate Author of scripture, about the intense romantic, emotional attachment which bound these men. When used of physical objects, the word qashar means to tie physically. When used of incorporeal souls, as here, qashar signifies emotional and romantic attachment.
Nongays insist ahab and qashar never mean romantic love when used of two men. Yet nothing in the Hebrew language requires that conclusion. The interpretative bias which draws that conclusion is the result of the negative presuppositions many lexicographers and linguists bring to the discussion of homosexuality.
Things to keep in mind
about Jonathan and David
How could David have a romantic
- You believe that King Saul in 1 Samuel 18:21 is referring to his daughters, the Royal Princesses, Merab and Michal.
"And Saul said, I will give him her, that she may be a snare to him, and that the hand of the Philistines may be against him. Wherefore Saul said to David, Thou shalt this day be my son in law in the one of the twain."
“In twei douytris two dowries thou schalt be my sone in lawe to dai.” -John Wycliffe Translation - 1395.
“This daye shalt thou be my doughters husbade ye secode time.” -Miles Coverdale Translation - 1535.
“Thou shalt this day be my son-in-law a second time.” ASV.
“Wherefore Saul said to David, You shall this day be my son-in-law in doing one of two things.” -Lamsa Translation
“And Saul said to David a second time, You shall be my son-in-law today.” -Green’s Literal Translation.
“Saul commanded, And today you shall be my son in law a second time.” -The Interlinear Bible.
“So again he said to David, "You're going to be my son-in-law." -Peterson's The Message Bible
- When King Saul says, “Thou shalt this day be my son in law in the twain” (two), we have at least four possible interpretations.
a. Saul is referring to Princess Merab and Princess Michal.
b. Saul is referring to two dowries, one for Princess Merab, whom Saul never gave to David, and one for Princess Michal, whom David married.
c. Saul is repeating his offer of a bride for David, making the offer a second time.
d. Saul is referring to Crown Prince Jonathan and Princess Michal. Those who hold this view believe King Saul recognized Jonathan and David’s relationship as more than platonic friendship.
I believe that choice d. makes the most sense because it fits the context, the meaning of the Hebrew words and the great emphasis God Himself placed on telling us about the Jonathan and David partnership.
- Remember that David was never engaged to and never married Princess Merab. She was promised to him for killing Goliath but she was never given to David.
- Crown Prince Jonathan is the only member of King Saul's family with whom David has a close relationship at this time. The phrase "one of the twain" is more understandable and makes more sense as referring to Jonathan and David, who did already have a publicly acknowledged partnership, 1 Samuel 18:1-3, than Princess Merab and David, who are never said anywhere in the Bible to have a relationship. King Saul's eldest daughter, Princess Merab is never a significant factor in the Jonathan and David story.
- The Hebrew word ahab can mean several things depending on the context in which it is used.
The Hebrew word ahab, used to describe Jonathan’s love for David, occurs 208 times in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. It is translated love in the KJV 169 times and occurs in our story in 1 Samuel 16:21, 18:1, 3, 16, 20, 20:17 and II Samuel 1:26.
The Holy Spirit used ahab in Genesis 29:20 to describe Jacob's love for his wife Rachel and the love of the Shulamite girl for Solomon in Song of Solomon 3:1-4.
The love of the Shulamite girl for Solomon is described as coming from her nephesh-soul, just as Jonathan’s love for David sprang from his nephesh-soul.
Scripture uses ahabah to describe sexual love in the context of opposite sex marriage in Proverbs 5:19. Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Hebrew Lexicon defines ahab as “human love for a human object, including:
1. love of man toward man,
2. love of man toward himself,
3. love between man and woman,
4. love as sexual desire.”
How can we determine if ahab refers to romantic love or love as sexual desire, between two men? Context gives us insight because the way ahab is translated depends on context.
In 1 Samuel 16:21, ahab is used of King Saul’s love for David. Nothing in the context indicates romantic, sexual attraction between Saul and David. Therefore we conclude ahab refers to non-romantic love between men in this usage.
In 1 Samuel 18:16, ahab is used of the love of all Israel and Judah for David. Nothing in the context indicates romantic, sexual attraction between Israel, Judah and David. Therefore we conclude that ahab refers to non-romantic love in this usage.
In 1 Samuel 18:20, where Michal is said to love David, it is universally believed that ahab refers to the romantic, sexual love of Princess Michal for David. The Hebrew word for love = ahab has not changed. What has changed is the context. Ahab in 1 Samuel 18:20 refers to the love of a woman for a man, both of whom eventually enter a marriage covenant.
So when we see that God the Holy Spirit uses the Hebrew word ahab in 1 Samuel 18:3 to describe Jonathan's love for David, it makes perfect sense, based on everything else the Bible tells us about the Jonathan and David relationship and the partnership covenant they formed, to conclude that they loved each other romantically.
sexual partnership with Jonathan?
Were David and Jonathan
committed same sex partners?
Why is the Bible not explicit
about David and Jonathan?
If Jonathan and David were gay
why were they not put to death?
Did David have wives before or
after his partnership with Jonathan?
Beau's Original Questions:
"In your section about the love between Jonathan and David, why are you taking another meaning for what it was intended?
Here is what you wrote:
"Same same marriage. The partnership of Jonathan and David is an example of same sex marriage in the Bible. Jonathan’s father referred to David as his son in law in I Samuel 18:21."
In this section of scripture, Saul is referring to David marrying his daughters (Merab and Adriel), not Jonathan.
And in your section about David and Jonathan you use the Hebrew word "ahab" which is the term for love. Then you give meanings for the word ahab, but you also failed to mention another meaning is "the act of being a friend".
ahab is also used in verse 16 of chapter 20 when it talked about Israel loving David. So is that to mean that all of the people of Israel love David in a romantic way?"