Gays are immoral and unspiritual, not real Christians.

by Sam J.
(Southeastern USA)

Thanks for honestly sharing your heart and your beliefs. Sam's original email is at the bottom of this page. I think many Christians view things the way you do because, to be painfully honest, they are ignorant. They don't know what the Bible says in context because they never study the Bible in context. They don't know any real Christians who are gay because their idea of spirituality has never grown beyond the "I'm right and you're wrong" phase. I hope you are ready to read the answer of a soul-winning gay conservative Christian.

Gays are immoral

Some gays definitely are immoral just as some heterosexuals are immoral. So what? Name any group - preachers, Sunday School teachers, soul-winners - and some of them are immoral. That means they are fallible human beings. To dismiss all gay Christians as immoral is silly. Some gay Christians live clean Godly celibate lives. Do you?

Before you throw stones of judgment at gay Christians, please acquaint yourself with the sexual immorality of many conservative born again evangelical Christians. I hope you are shocked by their sinful loose living and immoral porn-filled lifestyles.

Did you know that polls show 79 out of 100 hetero single Christians are having sex without being married? Did you know that 50 out of 100 men in conservative evangelical churches are wrestling with porn addiction? Did you know that 65 out of 100 abortions in the USA are performed on Christian Protestants and/or Roman Catholics? Those are the two most vehemently anti-gay groups. And yet you've got time to attack the morality of gay Christians?

Gays encourage sinful living

Anti-gay Christians love to quote diatribes from Dr. Paul Cameron and the Family Research Institute, against gays to prove our wickedness. Does it ever occur to you guys to check out what your champions really believe? Cameron is the guy your side cites to prove that gay men on average die at age 42. Or that gay men have 500 to 1000 sex partners. Why aren't you aware of what a hedonistic nut Dr. Cameron really is? Have you read Cameron's sex-crazed 1978 book, Sexual Gradualism?

In Sexual Gradualism, Dr. Cameron teaches Christian parents to promote seven levels of sexual intimacy for children and teens.
Level 1 Being near someone you like, lightly brushing against him, touching and smelling.

Level 2 Holding hands, touching arms, hugging.

Level 3 Kissing.

Level 4 Breast fondling, manipulating, sucking, kissing and so on.

Level 5 is mutual hand exploration of the genitals including mutual masturbation, touching, rubbing.

Level 6 is total nudity, perhaps in a shower or bathtub, accompanied by such things as physical stimulation.

Level 7 is oral sex, that is, kissing of the genitals, etc.

Level 8 is the final level of sexual intimacy, sexual intercourse, which is reserved for marriage.
Dr. Paul Cameron, the go to guy for anti-gay Christians is on record advocating sexual intimacy at Levels 1-7 for unmarried teens. Wouldn't it be wise for you anti-gay Christians to get your own house in order before you attack gay morality? Isn't it time to kick Cameron and his off-the-wall beliefs to the curb?

Gay Christians don't try
to win cultists to Christ

That is probably true of many gay Christians and it's also true of most non-gay Christians. But that is more a result of post-modernism and the slowly slithering serpent of false teaching in the emergent church than being gay. Your own anti-gay Christian crowd is more focused on porn, sex and getting abortions than on winning cultists to Christ.

Liberty University bills itself as the largest Christian University on earth, with more than 92,000 students. LU is viewed as a bastion of Christian orthodoxy yet their Chancellor, Jerry Falwell Jr, lacks the moral courage to take a public stand and call Mormonism what it is, a non-Christian cult. Please watch the video on Liberty's website and see for yourself.

What causes Christian leaders to morph into mealy-mouthed religious politicians? And what causes you Sam and other Christians to ignore Liberty University's refusal to call Mormonism a cult (if they don't view Mormonism as a cult, then they aren't trying to evangelize Mormons), while you attack gay Christians for not evangelizing cultists?

Sam, I hope you will read this page carefully and visit the pages I've text linked. It is time to examine your heart and find out why you are so focused on attacking the gay community.

Sam's original email:

"I believe gays are immoral and unspiritual, not real Christians. Gays are spiritual pretenders. You claim to be saved and live like the devil. You claim to be Christian but never stand for righteousness. You encourage others to live wicked lives. You never try to win the unsaved to Christ. Gays never even try to win cultists to Christ. You never take a stand for Biblical morality. Gays are fake Christians, not real Christians. I know you won't publish this but I hope you read it and honestly think about how you live. Love in Christ, Sam J."

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Comments for Gays are immoral and unspiritual, not real Christians.

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May 23, 2012
"All You People"
by: Kevin S.

I'm wondering how many gay people Sam actually knows. "Sorry my friend," but I just somehow can't imagine you sitting down to break bread with a LGBT person.

I'm guessing that most of your opinions have been formulated from what you heard from the pulpit, saw on TV or in movies. Let me make something clear to you as a gay Christian; there are many lifestyles in the LGBT community. For sure, some are immoral, but mine is not.

Neither are my Christian gay friends. We attend church regularly, teach and preach the gospel, feed hungry people and live our lives to honor our Savior. Starting next week I'll be teaching a Bible Doctrine / Evangelism class for 7 weeks to teach other LGBT Christians to go out and witness to our local LGBT community.

I bet you didn't know we do that kind of stuff, right? Do yourself and your fellow gay brothers and sisters in Christ a favor; go out and meet and get to know a "gay Christian." We may surprise you. You might find out we're not all the stereotypical gays preachers, TV and movies make us out to be.

Jun 19, 2012
Do you not understand Creationism?
by: RealChristian101

God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Therefore, you are not real Christians. Thank you.

Rick's comment: Real Stupid Christian 101: If you insist on using Adam and Eve as your marriage template, will you answer a few questions please?

1. Should people be naked at their wedding, like Adam and Eve?

2. Should people never have a minister officiate their wedding, since Adam and Eve did not?

3. Should weddings never be held in church buildings since Adam and Eve were not married in a church?

4. Should your children be allowed to marry each other since that's what Adam and Eve's children did?

Do you not understand the consequences of your ignorant illogic and where it leads?

Jun 19, 2012
"Real-Illiterate-Christian 101"
by: Kevin S.

Dear RealChristian 101: Yes, We do understand creationism. God created day and night, earth and heavens, trees and birds, dogs and cats and Adam and Eve. All with purpose.

He tells us in his Word that they were to "be fruitful and multiply." However, to confuse the gender union for creation with marriage is, well, STUPID! You see RealChristian 101, if you look at marriage in the Bible you will see: Adam and Eve, Carol, Sarah, Susie (Polygamy), Adam and Ruth (his slave). Adam and Barb (the wife of his dead brother) as well as many other forms of marital union.

You've bought into the modern day slogan by Evangelicals: "One man for One woman." The problem with that is, IT'S NOT BIBLICAL. Maybe if you actually read the Bible you'd know that. Biblical illiteracy is a dangerous thing.

Sep 04, 2012
Faulty logic
by: JT

The argument that others are immoral and they rebuke me therefore I cannot be immoral has no weight to it. You fail to address the issue and only focus on others immorality. This is no way to approach the argument. Likewise, I think all Christians, whether they think it is ok or not to accept homosexual behaviors, should examine their own lives first.

Rick's comment: Hi JT, thanks for another comment. I encourage you to offer a better argument, a scriptural argument if mine is not satisfactory. I now have 800+ pages of helpful information on this website to augment my answer. Many thanks for your input.

Oct 30, 2012
Man and Woman
by: Anonymous

I don't see any Biblical evidence of Man and Man or Woman and Woman as marital partners.

Rick's comment: Is it possible you see no Biblical evidence because you haven't bothered to look for it? Have you studied this issue or just read a few verses and assumed you know what they mean?

Can you intelligently discuss the cultural doctrinal historical linguistic literary and religious context of the clobber passages or are you just blowing smoke? Really now, in the world of adults and reality and God's truth, your opinion doesn't count for much.

Before you dismiss us as not having Biblical evidence, perhaps you need to be honest enough to study the evidence. I hope you will memorize and then obey 2 Timothy 2:15 so that you have a heart commitment to always interpreting scripture in context. Many thanks for stopping by.

Nov 25, 2012
God have mercy on you
by: Anonymous

You are a deceiver. You are exactly what peter was talking about in 2 Peter 2!

Rick's comment: And you are a sorry excuse for a Christian, who lacks courage to put your name with your ignorant remark. BTW, God has already had mercy on me when He washed me in the Blood of the Lamb, saved me by His grace and called me to preach the unsearchable riches of Christ. I look forward to meeting you in heaven if you make it.

Nov 25, 2012
Sons and Daughters
by: BA

I don't think "Gay" should even be part of our identity as beloved sons and daughters of God. That is an identity forced on some of us that is a "Cultural" thing but not necessarily Biblical. I don't think when we approach our Daddy God, He even says to Himself, "O look here comes Gay Steven or Straight Suzie!" It's here comes my beloved son or my beloved daughter. Those are labels that separate us but don't define us. When He chose us and planned out our life, He never considered Gay or Straight in the equation or definition. It's only, "Beloved." Settling for Gay to Straight is far too small for the grander identity He has called us to, which is a "Beloved Son or Daughter."

Rick's comment: Yet there is a very real and vicious battle being waged against the GLBT community by anti-gay christians. Some suggest we should be put in concentration camps until we die out. Others use the power of government to pass laws which discriminate against us and our families.

The reality is that God does see gender and sexual orientation. Those are not artificial constructs. They are real and they are important.

Nov 26, 2012
We ( The GLBT community) just want to be people
by: Kevin S.

As Rick has already stated, there is a war being waged against the GLBT community by many who label themselves as Christians. The GLBT community is forced to be on the defensive. "The Gay Issue" is an issue because many in the straight community refuse to let us just be us.

It is particularly hard for GLBT Christians. We are forced to fight just to be accepted as members of the body of Christ. In a perfect world, there would be no Black, White, Hispanic, Oriental, Native American, Gay, Strait, Bi, Transgender, woman or man. We would all be ONE in Christ Jesus. Oh yeah, Scripture already says that!

Mar 16, 2013
Carrying our cross
by: Eric

If you love Christ, are you willing to refrain from your sexual activities to follow him, and would you encourage others to do the same?

Rick's comment: 1. You are assuming that we are engaging in illicit sexual activities. Would it surprise you to discover that some gays and lesbians live celibate lives and some of us are legally gay married?

2. If you are heterosexual, are you willing to refrain from your sexual activities to follow Jesus? The vast majority of single heterosexual Christians are not. Instead, 79% are having sex outside of marriage while also professing to be conservative born again evangelicals.

3. By what authority do you ask your brothers and sisters in Christ to refrain from sexual activities to follow Jesus? Have you never read 1 Cor 7:1-9, where scripture tells us it is better to be married than to burn? Have you never read Genesis 2:18 where scripture says, "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." Your advice contradicts the clear statements of scripture.

4. 1 Cor 7:7 makes it clear that living a celibate life is a gift from God, not something you can require of your fellow Christians. What say ye?

Mar 26, 2013
No biblical argument found within the Gay community
by: Anonymous

It's sad to me that people straight or gay try to make excuses for their sin, no matter what it is. Whether a man feels the desire to cheat on his wife or a man desires to be with another man. They are both wrong. If being gay is not a sin then it would have been stated. There isn't any evidence that it is not but there is a lot against it. I wont quote it because you seem to know your bible pretty well.

If not then read the book of Romans. Just one of many. Is it wrong for preachers to look at porn and be child molesters? Well of course it is and they will have to give account for their own sins just as we all will some day. Don't mistake your feelings for truth because sadly that is what is wrong with the world. What person commits a sin first without feeling the desire to do so.

As Christians in Christ we should test our feelings according to the Word of God. Why does a man kill? Why did Cain kill Abel? Why did Abraham sleep with his servant? Why do people commit crimes? Just because it feels right doesn't make it right. I'm sorry but your feelings are wrong and to call them Godly because of how you feel, well your no different than any other person who has had a desire to rape, molest, kill, fight, commit adultery, or even sleep with the same sex.

We all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. Don't make excuses for your sin because it feels right. I hope some day you can find true happiness and quit trying to cover up your sin. God will hold us accountable for those we deceive.

Rick's comment: I commend you for remaining Anonymous. If I was as confused as you are, I would want to be Anonymous. If you ever get interested in what the Bible says in context, spend some time reading this website and comparing what I say to what the Bible says. You have a lot to learn.

Mar 27, 2013
by: Kevin S.

Dear “Anonymous” I agree with Rick, you should continue to post your comments under the shelter of the name Anonymous, for you are truly ignorant of Scripture (other than the few sound-bite quotes, some bumper-sticker sayings, and fragments that your pastor or Christian friends have quoted you.)

I also didn’t miss the ignorance in your statement about the so called prohibitions of same sex in the book of Romans. Be honest, you didn’t give the address because you don’t know where the verses are other than in the book of Romans. Next time you make a point, how about looking up the verse you quote. oh yeah, and reading it for yourself. You might actually learn a thing or two. A very effective rule I learned in Bible College was; you can't make a point without quoting at least three verses to back it up. That solves the problem of misquotation and general shooting-off-the-mouth.

You opened your post with, “Whether a man feels the desire to cheat on his wife or a man desires to be with another man. They are both wrong.” That statement is comparatively like saying, “Whether a man chooses to abuse his children or take the neighborhood kids out for ice cream.” They are totally different things. The statement only makes sense if one believes that same sex relationships are equivalent to the sin of adulatory. THEY ARE NOT!

Please! Please! I reiterate; Please open your Bible, use an online concordance, and do a study on who the “THEY” are in Romans chapter 1. Most Christians assume the they are homosexuals because that has been the contemporary christian thinking. But that has not always be so. The "They" are not homosexuals.

Spend some time "rightly dividing the word of truth" by doing an historical background study and you’ll see that “THEY” were idol-worshiping shrine prostitutes (qadesh), not homosexuals.

Brother; and I am assuming you are a believer. It is your responsibility to STUDY the Word and not to rely on other to feed you information, even if they are the pastor, family or friend. YOU, as a child of God have a duty as his son to, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:1

You will be amazed at the things the Bible says, and doesn’t say, when you dissect it as if it were a human body being autopsied. In fact the Greek words "rightly dividing" in that verse are the words where the English language derives its word "autopsy."

A little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing. In your case; a very little bit of knowledge is disastrous.

May 15, 2013
Leviticus and the marriage quote
by: Aaron Saltzer

First, I'm confused with Arsenokoites in reference to Leviticus. If you guys are no longer under Levitical law as Christians, then why would Arsenokoites be referring to Leviticus?

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - The Greek words Paul used to coin his new word, arsenokoitai, are found in the Greek Septuagint translation of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

In the first century AD, the Jewish and Christian understanding of Lev 18:22 and 20:13 was that arsenokoitai referred to shrine prostitutes.

Also, I seen that you changed Jesus's marriage quote from saying, "For this reason, when a man leaves his mother and father, he shall become one flesh with his wife" to saying, "one flesh with his suitable partner". Did you delete it after people found out what you were up to? Or is it just me?

Rick's comment: Yes, it is just you and your over-active imagination Aaron. When you asked this question several days ago on another page of this website, I answered promptly. Did you bother to read my answer to your May 13, 2013 question on this page?

I have never changed Jesus' quote about marriage. I do explain what Jesus said in Matthew 19:3-12 at these links.

Jesus and gay eunuchs

Jesus and same sex attracted eunuchs

May 17, 2013
What do you mean by that? Why do you care?
by: Kevin S.

Aaron, your statement, "If you guys are no longer under Levitical law as Christians, then why would Arsenokoites be referring to Leviticus?" The "you guys" is either referring to us being Christian which would seem to exclude you and indicate you are not a Christian or it is referring to us as the Gay (LGBT) guys which sounds a lot like the proverbial, "you people."

That latter statement is almost always motivated by bigoted and biased thinking. I tend to ignore everything after that statement because it is usually not motivated by genuine intellectual inquiry, but a chance to bash gay people. I'm further lead to believe your motive was just bashing when you get accusatory in your tone by saying, "Did you delete it after people found out what you were up to? Or is it just me?"

Chances are, it is just you! You seem to be accusing Rick of dishonesty in the information he gave. Well, I personally know Rick and and his writing and website is genuinely honest and straight forward. Honestly, I admire him for his patience to constantly debate some of the mean, hateful, bigoted LGBT bashing people who write one his site. I apologize if your intent was not as I've stated.

However, if it is; please explain to me why YOU PEOPLE (vindictive,mean, legalistic Christians) spend so much time on a gay Christian site arguing? Have you no life? If you're not a Christian, why do you care or even bother?

Finally; I write these rebuttals to the sarcastic, accusatory and mean spirited comments like yours that I read because Rick is an honest, spiritual man who gets verbally crucified by so many idiots who are unworthy to debate his intellectual proficiency with their Sunday school, bumper sticker, intellectually void arguments. Sorry Rick, but I'm not always as kind, lovingly and Spirit-filled as you. Sometimes I just want to kick some idiotic booty. Is it Okay to say BOOTY?

PS - I hate having to type in the word at the bottom of the comment for verification. When you're older, reading the word when printed normally is hard. Below it looks like it's on drugs and usually take 3-4 tries. LOL

Rick's comment: My website provider uses those words to weed out comments from spam bots. I agree it is not always easy to read for older eyes.

May 18, 2013
To Kevin S. and to Rick
by: Aaron Saltzer

I'm srry. I mean "you guys" in the sense of Christians. And I was not accusing Rick of anything. I distinctly remember a while back I was on here, and seen that he, in fact, DID change Jesus's quote about marriage, and is lying about it, and might have deleted it, since I cannot find it anymore.

Actually, I believed everything you said, Rick, up until that point. There were comments on that page too. One, of which confronted him on the same thing. Also, Kevin, you assumed I was bashing gay people, which in a sense, I'm myself, but am refraining from giving in to my temptations. Where as, some people think they're free to do what they want. And do not go off accusing me of being bias ad judgmental, when you had no idea what I was referring to.

May 18, 2013
by: Kevin S.


I included a kind of disclaimer apology in my post because i'm aware that i'm only getting a piece of the conversation. Though brief, i did sincerely mean that apology. Rick can attest to the fact that Kevin often has a attack dog approach to defending the Gay Christian perspective. I certainly have not endured the attacks and criticism that Rick has over the years, but in my short tenure as an openly gay man, I've been attacked and threatened by religious people with bodily harm.

My radio program was put off the air by so called Christians.Why? Because a gay Christian man dared speak of God on a openly gay talk show. So, please forgive me for my overbearing, crusading attitude. I refuse to be on the defensive with pinhead self-righteous religious people. I jump right to being on the offensive. Sadly Aaron, I've even had to defend myself from my LGBT community when I spoke openly and truthfully about the communities bad behavior.

No, Kevin is not the articulate, silver tongued, patient man that Rick is. I'm more the guy you take along when there's going to be some fur flying. At heart, I'm still the little quiet kid raised in the housing projects of Philadelphia, who was beat up on a weekly basis. But, he always fought back! as my friend Dr. Jerry says, "Kevin is not the easiest guy to understand. But in a battle, there is no one I rather have at my side or watching my back."

So Aaron, apologies for my accusatory tone, but not for my motive to speak in defense of what I know is true of God's Word. Knowing Rick as I do. I know his intent is that all will come to the saving knowledge of Jesus the Christ. I do not believe he would ever sacrifice his integrity and dedication to truth by being deceptive. When you write as much as he does it is very possible to be misunderstood. Please continue your posts and comments on his site. The exchange conflicting thought and healthy debate is always a good thing. Just keep in mind the attack dog (kev) is just behind the door, so do your homework before you speak. Sorry that was just Kevin being sarcastic, LOL.

PS: It is obvious how much Respect and admire Rick B. He has made a major impact in my life and remained a friend even when I'm not too lovable.

May 19, 2013
You're forgiven, Kevin S. :)
by: Aaron Saltzer

It's okay:) I used to be the same way. No one knows what it feels like to struggle with homosexuality, unless they are going through it themselves...

Rick's comment: Edited to remove a link to an ostensibly gay christian website whose members promote every false and unchristian teaching under the sun.

I think that is a good place to connect with people, who are going through the same things. Yet, the guy who founded it, is openly gay, and believes God blesses same-sex relationships, therefore he condones active gay people. Though, I think he's supportive of the celibate gay Christians, such as myself. I'd recommend visiting that site. You and Rick. It's hard when you have no one to talk to about this issue. Trust me. Haha.

May 20, 2013
How is it false teaching?
by: Aaron Saltzer

How is it false teaching? It is a support group for Christians who are struggling with homosexuality? What? Do you think your website is the greatest, and anything else is "false teachings"?

Rick's comment: Hi Aaron - The members of that website teach false doctrine like Universal Salvation (that everyone is already saved even if they have not trusted Jesus) as well as modeling the false practice of interfaith worship (their founder and leader participates in interfaith services with unsaved people).

For those reasons and many others I do not link to that website.

Jun 07, 2013
Only God Will Judge Me
by: Sam Thomas

As I read through the pages of this site, I'm pretty amazed about the varied opinions that everyone has about homosexuality versus what people think is right. A lot would claim that he or she is right and at the same time, argue that the other is wrong.

I am not here to argue or judge anyone and I respect everybody's opinion. I am gay, people always have something to say about me or us, but I will continue to strive to be good in everything that I do. I will treat others right in the kindest way possible even if they do me wrong.

We can exchange words about our perception of things, but at the end of the day, we have to realize that only God will judge us - not me, not you, not anyone! :-) Let's all have a peaceful life.

Rick's comment: Hi Sam - so nice to see your comment. I do encourage you to print out this Bible study, Jesus Teaches Hell 101, and also please read God's answer to our sin problem, How to be saved by Jesus.

Jun 07, 2013
To Sam Thomas
by: Aaron Saltzer

I love your comment! I believe that's what Jesus would do, treat people with love and mercy. It's hard sometimes, but we should do what is right. That is the best way to be. More people should be like you.

Jul 05, 2013
Your site
by: Clive

Whilst looking at another Biblical site, I clicked various links to arrive at your site. I am a straight married evangelical Christian. Gay issues are not even mentioned in my church. I have long pondered on what the truth might be re gay Christianity, and must say that your site is immensely helpful. I really want to have a Biblical response to Gay issues, as so many evangelicals I know are immediately dismissive of the possibility of being both Gay and Christian (my wife being one of them). I look forward to further dipping into your site in the hope of reaching clarity under the guidance of God. Very best wishes. Clive

Jul 06, 2013
There is hope!
by: Kevin S.

RE: Clive - Wow dude, you would not believe how long I have waited to hear a straight evangelical Christian sincerely look for truth as it applies to being Gay and Christian. Your openness to truth and sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is uplifting. As a gay Christian with a history of Bible College/Seminary and ministry, I've been almost totally dismissed by other believers, as an abominable sinner, and usually by those who have nothing more than an opinion when it comes to Biblical truth.

Dude, you made my year! Thank God there is hope that some believers will see there is a whole community of LGBT people who have trusted in Jesus as Savior and live their lives as children of God. I think you have found a website which will alter for good the way you view Christianity.

Rick B. and this site had a profound and life changing effect on my life when I came out just 7 years ago. Thanks brother Clive for your openness to the Holy Spirit and your sincere desire to seek after truth. May The Lord bless your endeavor.

Aug 01, 2013
oh my, You are EXCELLENT in deceiving people
by: Andrea

there is no such thing as Biblical proof or supported passages where God allows gays or gay marriage marriage or anything like that. God is against it and most know this. Its people like you, Rick, that take verses from the Bible and turn it around and make it seem okay. But blessed is the one who seeks wisdom and doesnt fall into such traps where it blinds you to the point you remain ignorant and choose to live in sin.

Rick's comment: Your opinion indicates you have not studied the issue and are not familiar with "rightly dividing the word of truth," 2 Timothy 2:15. I do hope you will begin to study your Bible. Thanks for stopping by.

Oct 27, 2013
Thank You!
by: Lisa W.

My story, married hetero, former independent Baptist, bible thumping, gay hating. How far I have come.

I started down a different path ironically working for Focus on the Family. My church taught only Baptists were good Christians. At work, I got to know Christians from all walks of life who had the love of Jesus shining in their lives.

I walked away trying paganism, witchcraft, Buddha, and Islam on for size. I repented, got baptized and began searching for a church, but quit church for about 10 years.

I met four people who changed my life. I used to be that typical homophobe, judging all like you. I frankly believed that some homosexuals were demon possessed. Then I worked with a transgendered woman, and three gay men over the course of 6 years. Two of the men became very good friends. As I prayed for them, I realized something...there is no "good news" in the standard evangelical version of the gospel for GLBT's. How is it good news to be told you are an abomination, going to hell, a sinner, you should just change your orientation?

I stumbled across your site and I've looked at many of your pages and investigated for myself. I still haven't come to a firm conclusion yet, but I am getting close. If someone would have told me 10 years ago that I would ever be close to believing that gay marriage was ok and that homosexuals are not sinners, I would have laughed in their faces. That is where I am heading...admitting that homosexuality is not a sin.

I've already changed many of my beliefs by studying passages for myself. Every time I do that I find a teacher or a book that helps clarify. For instance, my church taught that there is a pre-tribulation rapture. After studying the subject carefully, I concluded that there is a second coming but no rapture. My so-called mature Baptist church had strung together a few passages to build a doctrine that wasn't really there (at least in my opinion.)

Similarly, I had already come to the conclusion that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed due to the wickedness of hearts who were willing to rape anything that came through their town. You made the connection for me to the Nephilim.

What I do know is even if Christians disagree on this, the way the vast majority of evangelicals treat GLBT's is horrifying. They have forgotten the commandment to love thy neighbor. Even if Christians disagree, we can break bread together, pray for one another, love one another, and accept that none of us will ever agree 100% of the time.

God bless you and thank you for opening the eyes of a reformed homophobe.

Mar 04, 2014
the word
by: Abe

As a Christian I am to love everyone even Homosexuals or gays however you want to name it. I am truly against sin not against the sinner The devil is the creator of sin and lies you can look at the word of the bible and you can twist the words around that is what Satan wants to create. He wants you to change the word of God.

Homosexuals, Adulterers fornicators, robbers, murderers, liars are all sinners but as a sinner I have repented that is not to say I will remain clean of sin except I have accepted Jesus and I do not go against the word of God but to say that the bible accepts homosexuality is to say God is a liars.

please change your wicked ways ask God to open your mind so that you can understand the word and not misinterpret it. Thank and may God open your eyes for I too was blind for now I see. I hope you choose to publish this.

Rick's comment: Abe, I get so many self-serving comments like yours. My response is: about spiritual things, you are as blind as a bat backing in backwards. You are at a moral and spiritual dead end on the cul de sac of life.

What should you do?

1. Read, memorize and obey 2 Timothy 2:15.

2. Educate yourself BEFORE publicly expressing opinions which make you look foolish.

3. Stop comparing your gay brothers and lesbian sisters to murderers, adulterers, robbers, liars.

4. Stop assuming our ways are wicked when you don't even know us. Doing that is so 12th century.

Many thanks for stopping by.

Mar 06, 2014
Is there any intelligent life out there?
by: Kevin S.

Plain and simple; I would love to read just one comment from a non-gay Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian, that is based on some real Biblical truth, exegetically sound and have a basis in strong hermeneutics, as opposed to the usual stereotypical, misinformed, Sunday school, theologically void statements. At least have the forethought to look up the verses so you can quote them accurately.

Doing less just makes ALL Christianity look stupid! Oh, and please, have the fortitude to stand by your statements by putting a real name to them! Anonymous is not a name. If you truly believe what you say, proudly stand up and name yourself. Otherwise, it just another opinion, and you know what opinions are like!

Mar 06, 2014
I'm convinced
by: Lisa W.

What can I say? I'm convinced there is nothing wrong with being gay and it's because I read the passages on your site.

You've asked me to send my gay friends here. I've already passed your information along. I would give you their names but that would be a violation of their trust so I won't.

One of them is somewhat responsive and surprised at my change of ideas. The other is an atheist. Neither of them will allow me to talk about God with them. As much as I am able, I find small chances to get a mention to them. I pray for them, too. If you could add them to your list, I'd be most appreciative.

I'll be seeing one for coffee in May. I don't know when I'll see the other friend again. I live very far from both of them. But Facebook shortens the miles. Blessings to you.

Rick's comment: Hi Lisa - will pray for them. Many thanks!

Mar 06, 2014
Confused Abe doubles down
by: Abe

This is what I think 2 Timothy 2:15 means. We are to make every effort to present ourselves before God as approved workmen! When we stand before the judgment seat of Christ we want to hear Him say, "Well done My good and faithful student! You have learned from Me. You have correctly handled and faithfully taught My Word of truth." We want God's approval, not only for how we live our life, but for how we study His Word.

We can always twist Gods words to mean what we want it to mean but it only has one meaning not two. You want to justify your behavior by adding to the word of God.

Satan is the creator of confusion not God and I repeat I too am a sinner accept I have accepted Christ and the one true Gospel of God not Satan's. I have nothing against homosexuals it is the sin I am against. As a sinner I am to love the sinner.

Rick's comment: In his previous comment in this thread, Abe said: "Homosexuals, Adulterers fornicators, robbers, murderers, liars are all sinners..." How sweet of him to put us in that disreputable company.

Now Abe tells us Satan is the author of confusion, implying that gay Christians are confused and have accepted Satan's gospel yet Abe insists, "I have nothing against homosexuals it is the sin I am against. As a sinner I am to love the sinner."

Then Abe accuses us of "justifying our behavior by adding to the word of God," yet gives no example of us doing that. This kind of vacuous accusation is typical of folks who are unaccustomed to thinking.

As usual, there is no in context argument from scripture, just bloviating about loving the sinner. Yawn.

Mar 06, 2014
Hang in there
by: Lisa W.

You are making a difference. I'm sure that you must get very discouraged by all of the unbelievably ignorant Christians out there.

This site made a difference in my life and I am sure there are many lonely GLBT folks out there who may stumble across this site when at the bottom of their lives. Here, they find the message of Jesus - hope in a dark world.

Please don't ever let the ignorant keep you from getting the message of our Savior to those who need hope.

Blessings to you. Lisa

Jun 10, 2014
Searching for Truth
by: Scott

I am 43 years old. I grew up believing that homosexuality is a sin. When I was 19 I was immersed & made my confession of faith. Engaged to my high school sweetheart, I naively believed that I would outgrow my attraction to men. Now, 43 & married 21 years with two wonderful children, I find myself with my desires growing as I age. After years of praying for God to take this burden away, I've found myself questioning my faith. If God is real, why did He not answer my faithful prayers and obedience? Maybe He is real & the reason my prayers were not answered, is because what I've felt isn't wrong & being gay is not a sin. Since I became a Christian, I've spent my life in a non-denominational evangelical Christian Church, who stand behind the belief that being gay is a sin. 7 years ago I went to a counselor & a support group, and now I find myself back at the same place...actually worse than I was 7 years ago. Countless times I've wished I could die instead of live a life ashamed of what I feel. I've decided I need to seek answers to my questions and understand whether being gay is a sin. I'm not sure what I'll do if I come to the conclusion that it's not, but I'm finding it hard to believe that it is fair to my family to continue living a lie. I'm just starting to read the information on your site, so thank you for putting together the "other side of the story". I used to believe that God would do this amazing transformation & deliver me from my homosexual attractions, now I'm beginning to wonder if maybe he will use my story in a very different way...allowing me to come to the truth and share the truth about being gay.

Rick's comment: Hi Scott - the information on this website will help you come to truth on this issue. As always, obey Galatians 5:16 and "Walk in the Spirit..."

Jun 11, 2014
Sometimes God wants transformation not healing.
by: Kevin S.

Scott, Sometimes it is NOT healing that is God's best for us, sometimes it's transformation he wants. The latter can take years and be accompanied by hurt and pain. But ultimately it serves our Lord and refines us as his children and makes us into someone we never thought we could be.

Your words so moved me because I've been where you are now. Your words made me cry in empathy for your struggle and desire to just do what is right. Scott, there are no easy answers. There are no simple solutions. And as for the "why", Only your Heavenly Father knows! And only time will show you! Can you trust him for that? He loves you. Can you place your fate, your future in His hands? He's working out a plan, a plan that's best for Him, and spiritually fulfilling for you. He has a destination for you, but the journey may be long and tough. Do you want his best, even if the journey is painful?

I was married for 34 years to the girl I met in Bible College and ministry. I have two sons. When I became aware and convinced of my homosexuality, Like you I prayed, begged, and pleaded with God to take my homosexuality away. I swore I'd serve him everyday, I'd dedicate my life to leading people to him, I'd give everything I had, and use every gift he'd given. I joined an Ex Gay church group and spent a year in guilt and shame trying to change and deny my emotions.

But that ended in a suicide attempted, and no healing, it took years to recover from the hurt spiritual and emotional damage they did to me. After days, weeks, years or praying prostrate on my face; do you know what God did? He allowed me to be gay! And I serve him as a gay man.

Rick's book and website were a great help for me to reconcile my faith, relationship with my Lord, and being a gay man. His exhaustive information and exegetically sound Biblical perspective, opened my eyes and ultimately my heart to truth. It set me free. I did not lose my faith, my relationship with my a Heavenly daddy, nor did I have to lie or conceal who I was.

There is a time that will be right for you to come out of the closet. You may think it will destroy everyone and everything. That's simply not so. My two sons love and support their gay dad. Everyone in my life now knows. And guess what? The world didn't end. The sky didn't fall. Life moved on. Oh yes, some people departed my life and some stayed.

Scott, for me there are no more secrets, no more fear, no more lies. I'm me, inside and out. Before God and men. Free to live outside the closet. Free to discover who God created me to be! Free to LIVE, as I've never lived before. Free to be what I never thought possible!

Scott, there can be a happy ending to the transformation happening to you. It will not be easy! God needs and uses gay Christians to do what it is we believers, children of God are suppose to do; minister to those without Jesus. Though my journey was rough, my destination Is where I needed to be.

Yes, there where some loses, and some amazingly wonderful gains, like having Rick Brentlinger as a friend, brother in Jesus, and confidant. I have amazing gay Christian friends.

I know who I am, I am who God created, I'm confident and secure in His love and acceptance of me. Then again, He always knew I was gay! My homosexuality was never a surprise to Him. I'm now well versed in what the Bible Says and DOES NOT say on the subject of homosexuality. So much so! That I use that information gained through Rick's book and site to debate those who wrongfully condemn us; and I win!

God never promised us an easy life, not for any believer. It is true, "where much is given, much is required." It is also true, "where much is required, much is given." He will provide all you need, including the courage to stand and say, "I love my Lord, I serve Him, I believe in Jesus as my savior, and I'm a gay man!" God sometimes asks us to do hard things, be tough. That's called "courage" and there isn't much of that in the world today.

I'm not the man I was was just 8 years ago, but I'm the man God meant me to be. There was a monumental transformation in my life. And it all worked together for good. Today, I'm a content, secure, and confident GAY CHRISTIAN!

Jun 11, 2014
Personal communication for Scott
by: Kevin S.

Scott, please feel free to contact me through Rick and this website if you think it would help!

Jan 06, 2015
to scott and kevin
by: mary

You say that you are homosexuals who are married with a woman and kids. I am single myself. I plan not to get married, it's my personal choice.

I don't find myself burning with desire for a companion. Is that what you mean by being attracted to the same sex. I don't constantly think about any need for a man. I have been attracted to the opposite sex before but I don't burn with desire constantly for them. I am completely free of such thoughts. I am not a slave to burning in desire for someone, like you are. And the fact that you wrestle with such thoughts is strange to me. I do not wrestle. I am free from such thoughts. I have peace.

And if God sends me someone, then I may change my mind and fall in love but in the meantime, I don't burn for a companion. Why do you wrestle with thoughts of having a companion of the same sex? I don't wrestle with attraction to anyone. I think that something is not quite right with you.

It's a choice to have a companion. It's a choice to be attracted to someone. If desiring to be with a companion is something I can't control, then something is wrong. You must have self-control and when you can't, it means that something is not right with you.

Don't settle. Keep seeking God for relief from your torments. He will help you. Seek Him and praise Him even in tough times. He will answer you. Don't give up. Jesus loves you very, very much. HE WILL ANSWER YOU!!!

Rick's comment: Hi Mary - I believe part of what Scott and Kevin were discussing is loneliness - the innate human need for a suitable companion.

Our LORD Himself said: "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." - Genesis 2:18

An help meet (suitable) for a hetero man is a hetero woman. An help meet for a gay man is another gay man. God created human beings to need a companion. It is not something we can turn off and on like a lamp. Thanks for sharing.

Oct 07, 2015
It's hard it really is
by: Kat Preece

Trust me I've only just recently stopped being anti gay...and I've been called

"Deceived by the devil"
"A moron"
"Disgusting behaviour"
"Your unsaved and not a true Christian"
"Your Biblically illiterate, let me show you how to read the Bible"

It's not just gays they shun. It's also non gay Christians that have seen reason and support gay Christians.

All because I changed my mind. They will not even listen to straight Christians. So if they will not even listen to me....I can't imagine how hard it must be to get them to listen to you.

Jan 25, 2016
Advice please.
by: Just a Christian Lesbian

I have been doing a lot of searching around the internet on this topic, and I feel like putting up my story here and asking for some good old fashioned advice might be a good idea. I am a 20-year-old lesbian in a long term relationship with an incredible woman. One of the first things we bonded over when we met was our mutual love and faith in Christ.

I grew up going to church, youth group, you name it, as did she, and discussing our faith and relationship with God helped us grow closer as a couple. Here is where we part ways though. I have fully come to grips with "balancing" so to speak my relationship with God and my being gay. I had an incredible youth pastor tell me over and over that love is the foundation of Christ's teachings, and that my love and how I choose to show it is not sin, it is a celebration of one of the most important and vital parts of the Word of the Lord, love.

I have been so happy for years attending church and helping those around me come to find God, and never once have I felt conflicted or guilty. My girlfriend however is not the same. She is fully accepted by her friends and family, no one around her belittles her or makes her feel less then she is, but she has a very hard time understanding how her love for me doesn't have to change her love of God.

Many nights we've had long discussions about my beliefs and how I see things, and the conversation always ends the same: she believes that we can be in a relationship, but thinking about marriage, kids, even loving herself makes her feel like an abomination. She is so full of self-loathing that it just makes my heart hurt for her so bad at times. My question and my hope is this.

How do I explain, or at least open her eyes to ideas and thoughts she had not entertained in the past, pertaining to, basically, that gay is okay? I see myself spending the rest of my life with this beautiful woman, but I want our relationship to be based on our faith and commitment to the Lord, not riddled with what has been pushed into her head as being wrong or a reason to feel guilty.

I have a hard time formulating my words sometimes, and I always lose my tongue when we have these discussions, what are some good verses to discuss, advice to give, honestly anything that I can share with her to help her not beat herself down all the time? Many thanks, and God bless!

Rick's comment: Hi Just a Christian Lesbian - The only way I know of to get a Christian lesbian to change her mind is to go through the scriptures with her. To help you do that, I have a lot of information on the clobber passages.

On the NavBar, click any link under, What The Bible Says. With your Bibles open, the two of you can read through my pages, compare what the Bible says and also, explore the text links, which provide more information.

Lots of lesbians and gays are self-loathing because they have never taken time to study the Bible for themselves. One purpose of my website is to provide free information to help people find Jesus Christ as their Savior from sin, hell and the wrath of God AND THEN reconcile being gay or lesbian AND being Christian.

I hope this is helpful to you and your girlfriend.

What must I do to be saved?

Sep 20, 2016
I just have to respond
by: NEMO

In asking God for wisdom about it, I found the parable in Matthew 20 that can provide great comfort for any gay person struggling with Gods perspective about them and perhaps their lifestyles. God clearly tells us that those like the person who emailed you, who expect a greater reward because they lived a life supposedly more righteous than a homosexual for example are no more worthy of Gods salvation. They will receive the same measure of salvation, no matter what their sin is. Your heart of judgement goes entirely against the spirit of God but I will do my best not to fault you for it. About homosexuality and the flawed perceptions surrounding it I have a few truths that I have discovered

1. God does not want us to indulge or have heart of lust no matter what shape such lust make take. Homosexual or heterosexual, being lustful is wrong because it distracts us from Gods plan.

Its as simple as that. I can firmly tell you that being Gay has much more greatly affirmed my belief in God and my understanding of his love. It exceeds any boundaries which you may prescribe. You should know that. I pray that you can develop the spirit of compassion you were called for.
Why should murderers be forgiven by God, surely their sins are greater? Should they be able to call themselves Christians just because they don't kill anymore, while Gays because a seemingly harmless proclivity can't be called Christians because they continue to be Gay. Where does God give you the authority to say which sins are unforgivable and for you to judge which people truly love him. You don't know and you can't know. Everything you are saying derives from a stereotypical understanding about who Gay people are. I pray that your heart is softened truly because such anger and judgement is a deadly distraction from God.
The verses and essays cited in this site do not actually resolve the issue of whether being Gay is sinful in my mind. I just know it really doesn't matter in the context of sin, no sin outweighs another before God.

Sep 27, 2016
by: Concerned

I can't believe that people actually think being gay is against the Bible. I'm gay, and I'm a Christian. Anyone out there who is homosexual: You're going to Heaven just like other believers!

Rick's comment: Hi Concerned - Yes indeed, some people still believe being gay is a sin. The thing to keep in mind is, Jesus died for all people and WE are included in God's offer of salvation.

Getting saved is a free gift from God to all who will receive it.

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