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Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

by Rick Brentlinger
(Florida, USA)



Recently Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries used the "Jesus said it ain't okay" argument from Matthew 19:3-7. Here is his email to me and my response.

"And Pharisees came up to Him and tested Him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that He Who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said,

‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?”
(Matthew 19:3-7, ESV)

Ken writes: "Rick, Jesus has just defined marriage as a male (man) to a female (woman), and that's how the men to whom He was speaking understood it.

That's always been the orthodox Jewish position as well as that of the historic orthodox Christian Church. Even John Shelby Spong admitted homosexuality cannot be defended from Scripture.

You are welcome to your views, but as gently as I can say it, they really don't stand in the light of Scripture."
Click here to comment.

My Comments / Answer to
Ken's arguments

Hi Ken- I will address your factually inaccurate statements point by point.

1. "to come to a conclusion biblically that same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant."

That is your opinion based on your presuppositions about male-female Complementarity in Genesis 1:27 and 2:24. Your opinion differs from what the texts actually say.

The Pharisees did not ask Jesus if "same sex sexual relations are always outside the marriage covenant."

Your interpretation substitutes your opinion - something Jesus didn't say - for what Jesus actually said. You are teaching your opinion - something Jesus did not say - as absolute truth. Obviously that is a false way of interpreting scripture.

2. "Jesus has just defined marriage as a male man to a female woman, and that's how the men to whom He was speaking understood it."

Your conclusion is not at all what Jesus actually said. The Jewish men to whom Jesus spoke did not define marriage as one man with one woman for life. When Jesus cites Genesis 2:24, by no means did Jesus or Jewish men understand Genesis 2:24 as prohibiting polygamy.

We know Complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not God's ironclad rule for all marriages because scripture makes exceptions for other situations like (1) polygamy and (2) divorce because of fornication. The fact that there are clearly stated Biblical exceptions to Complementarity proves your absolutist view is wrong.

It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered. This belief is based on 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where the principle of partnership is stated.

"To avoid fornication, everyone (except those gifted with celibacy) should have an orientation compatible partner."

I believe scripture is clear that the Jewish men He addressed did not understand Him to be prohibiting polygamy. There is no way Jesus intended His words to convey the meaning you give them - that the only marriage acceptable to God is one man with one woman. Here's how we know that.

a. The first polygamous marriage is recorded in the Bible in Genesis 4:19, only 44 verses after the marriage passage in Genesis 2:24.

b. God and Moses, in Deuteronomy 21:15-17, made provision in the Law for polygamous marriages. This provision is never described by Jesus or any human author of scripture as accommodating human sinfulness, yet Jesus did describe divorce as sinful, Matt 5:32, 19:3-7, Mark 10:11-12.

Why do so many heterosexual preachers harp on the "sin" of homosexuality while ignoring the divorce epidemic in their own churches (sometimes in their own lives)? That is "straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel."

c. Many heroes of the faith practiced polygamy their entire adult lives yet scripture does not condemn them as living in sin. The nation of Israel sprang from Jacob's polygamous marriage with four women.

God is not an absolute Complementarian. In plainer words, God does not agree with your absolutist view and never states your absolutist view in the Bible.

God never encourages us to believe that the only marriage acceptable to Him is a one man with one woman marriage like Adam and Eve. Isn't it time you repented and lined up with God's view instead of championing your own opinion?

d. Jehovah Himself affirmed polygamy through His prophet Nathan in 2 Samuel 12:7-8.

"And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things."


At the point in time when Jehovah gave additional wives into David's bosom, David already had at least seven wives whose names are given: Ahinoam, Abigail, Maacah, Haggith, Abital, Eglah, 2 Samuel 3:2-5, Michal, v. 13.

Because God affirmed polygamy, that is clear testimony from God that He does not agree with your opinion that one man with one woman is the only marriage relationship God will bless.

e. The Holy Spirit affirms polygamy by inference in 2 Chronicles 24:2-3.

"And Joash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all the days of Jehoiada the priest. And Jehoiada took for him two wives; and he begat sons and daughters."

3. "That's always been the orthodox Jewish position..."

Your statement is factually inaccurate. Jews throughout the Old Testament and into the first century AD accepted and permitted polygamy. The orthodox Jewish position since 1450 BC when Moses wrote the Pentateuch has been that Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 do not teach absolute Complementarity - one man with one woman for life - as the only marriage paradigm God will bless.

Instead the orthodox Jewish position affirmed and blessed polygamy. Abraham, father of the faithful and friend of God, was a polygamist, Genesis 16:3-4, who also fathered many children by concubines, Genesis 25:6.

Jacob, whose sons formed the twelve tribes of Israel, was a polygamist. God Himself decided that Jacob's offspring from four wives would become the nation of Israel.

4. "...as well as that of the historic orthodox Christian Church."

On this point too, your conclusion is historically inaccurate. There is no scriptural evidence that any early Christian who heard Jesus speak in person or who read Matthew 19 understood Jesus to be outlawing polygamy when He spoke of "two becoming one."

Events in Matthew 19 occurred around AD 29. 1 Timothy was written around AD 62 so there is at least a 33 year gap between Jesus' statement on divorce and Paul's statements in 1 Timothy 3.

"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife" -1 Tim 3:2

"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife" -1 Tim 3:12

If Jesus intended to teach absolute Complementarity, that the ONLY acceptable marriage is one man with one woman for life, and if His Jewish listeners and early Christians understood that to be His teaching, then why did the Holy Spirit and Paul feel it necessary to point out that bishops and deacons may only have one wife?

If Jewish and Christian orthodoxy already understood that, there is no reason for the Holy Spirit and Paul to mention that having more than one wife was a deal-breaker for a bishop or a deacon.

The fact is, some first century Jews and Christians practiced polygamy because polygamy was never forbidden in scripture for anyone except bishops and deacons.

5. "Even John Shelby Spong admitted homosexuality cannot be defended from Scripture."

That is such as weak argument. Spong is a heretic of the first order. He rejects the deity of Christ, the necessity of the new birth, justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Spong also rejects the inspiration and authority of scripture. His testimony about what scripture does or does not teach carries no weight.

6. "You are welcome to your views, but as gently as I can say it, they really don't stand in the light of Scripture."

That is such a condescending statement. You cannot produce any verse of scripture which in context addresses same sex marriage yet you've concluded based on scripture taken out of context, that same sex marriage is never permissible.

What you've done is re-purpose a passage in which Jesus rebukes heterosexual Jewish men for their heterosexual divorce practices as if Jesus was really making a negative statement about gay marriage.

In your zeal to champion your opinion, you've stepped into the sandals of the scribes and Pharisees, "making the word of God of none effect by your (anti-gay) tradition." Mark 7:13


Ken Silva answered what I wrote above.

Here is my response to his answer
plus a link to his answer.

Comments for
Did Jesus define marriage as only between a man and a woman?

Click here to add your own comments

May 12, 2010
nice try
by: lisa miller

it seems you too can take scripture and make it what you wish to say..the argument that something has 'no scriptural evidence' is weak in itself, as a defense for anyone's agenda. nice try, though.
i do enjoy reading you banter! have a great day!

May 13, 2010
just a thought
by: james c burgess

As I read some of the comments I get saddened by the level of pure hatred from ones that proclaim to be christians and write posts with their little "zings" and stuff.

I just don't get it. I'm grateful to be an open, out, christian gay man and fortunately pretty thick skinned against the "haters" yet I know so many that have been really hurt by many in the body of Christ. Just a thought after reading the post before me.

May 13, 2010
The blind misleading the blind
by: Kevin Schupp

Rick,

As always you've done a fine job of taking the words of scripture and applying true objective standards. As a man who spent many years studing God's word in bible college, I appreciate your non-biased study. Our evangelical, fundamentalist christian church has lapsed into biblical illiteracy. I find so many christians can't even quote a half dozen verses in defense of their own faith.

Pastors have now taken on a role much like priests of the Catholic faith. They dispense biblical truth to the flock who receive it with unquestioning faith. The day of personal responsability for our faith seems to have passed.

Untruth and biblical error, while often unintentional, flow from pulpits with nothing to counter or question its validity. Views on homosexuality are seeded in the minds of the believers peppered with the bigotry and bias of the standard christian view and never objectively dissected.

Much like the years of racial discrimination in our churches. Few questioned the misuse of bad theology and scripture pulled out of context to condone segregation in our churches. It took a minister like Martin Luther King to challenge the leadership of the church to bring about honest study and eventually THE TRUTH of our error.

Keep exposing the truth Rick. I believe some are listening. Scripture says,"Come let us reason together, thus says the Lord." I think that is all we are asking for gay christians.

Recently I've gone back to the Word to look a second time with objective eyes and an open mind as to some of the things I was taught. More than a few scriptures have revealed the inaccurate teachings of my college years. I surely appreciate the foundations of my faith I learned in those years. However I've also realized that some scriptures were taken out of context, culture of the time and original language were often ignored to conclude preconceived views. The commonly held view was preferred over the biblical truth.

I think that's what we call RELIGION. Let us now shed the traditions of man and seek the truth of The Living Word of God. The world needs the foundations of faith not the useless self-righteousness of Religion. Only the Truth will set us free.

May 13, 2010
Adventures in missing the point
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Lisa-

Unfortunately you're not alone among anti-gay Christians in missing the point. The Pharisees did NOT ask Jesus if marriage is only between a man and a woman. That is not now and never was the topic under discussion.

Yet anti-gay Christians insist on reading into the text what Jesus did not say, that marriage can only be between a man and a woman.

What folly to read into Jesus' citations of Genesis 1:27 and 2:24 that Jesus intended His Jewish hearers to understand that homosexual marriage is always wrong.

Talk about straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. I think you'll have difficulty slipping that one past God at the judgment seat of Christ.


May 19, 2010
2-3%
by: Anonymous

You state 5% of the population are gay. Apparently you don't have the balls to continue the ongoing lie that it is 10%.

I have read 2-3%.

Gay is a choice.

Choose Straight!

May 19, 2010
I feel sorry for you
by: Rick Brentlinger

It makes me sad you are so angry at gay and lesbian Christians. God the Holy Spirit isn't the source of your anger.

So what is the source of your anger?

Wouldn't the cause of God and truth be better served by loving your gay brothers and lesbian sisters?

Remember that our Lord Jesus Christ AND the Apostle Paul told us that "love" for God and neighbor sums up the law and fulfills the law, Matthew 22:36-40, Romans 13:8-10.

By the way, the statistics are all over the board concerning the percentage of GLBTs in the human population. I believe 5% is conservative - its probably closer to 10% but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

May God bless as you walk the path of His purpose for your life.

May 20, 2010
Always an Angry Response
by: KEVIN SCHUPP

Re: 5% of population is gay vs 10%

I believe you're correct Rick in being conservative with the 5% figure. However I think those of us in the gay population would say it is our experience that there are many more gay men and women than it would appear.

I've been amazed at the number of men who are living as heterosexuals and in reality are closeted homosexuals. The anger displayed in the things written by this person who can't even identify themselves indicates several things to me.

First, Anger is not a fruit of the Spirit. "If we have not love one for another,than the love of God is not in us." This may just be another religious person not a child of God.

Second, Homosexuality is not a choice. Most of the gay men and women I know realized at a young age they were different long before they even understood sex. The gay life is a hard one. I know of no one who would choose to be gay.

Third, "Choose Straight?" I would ask this person if they could tell me the moment, hour, day, month or year that they made the choice to be straight.

In conclusion I say to them: Your frustration that the gay population is larger than you would like to admit and your obvious anger at the gay population leads me to think there is a deep fear buried in you. It has been my personal experience and also a truth of scripture that "the truth will set you free."

Aug 16, 2010
Follow the scriptures
by: Faith

Many Christians will quote "The truth will set you free" but forget that is the preceding scripture that tells us to follow the teachings of Christ and the following scriptures that show the consequences (effects)of not doing so, John 8:31-38.

We as Christians are to admit that we are not doing so when the Word of God shows us that what we are following is not his teaching. We as Christians can be deceived into believing things that are not true and therefor live in bondage of sin.

We are forgiven past, present and future. If we ask God to search our heart to reveal any wrong way in us, He will reveal it and we then have the opportunity to be set free of the bondage of sin through repentance.

The problem is that the Homosexual agenda is to seek equality, but are looking wrong direction to achieve this. The argument is with Christ, not with fellow Christians. So I suggest the searching begin in the hearts of individuals and trust God to come up with the answer.

Then you will know if you are really hearing from God or not. Watch for the outcome. God will not go against his word.

Aug 17, 2010
Thanks Faith, for your comments
by: Rick Brentlinger

While I appreciate your comments, it gets discouraging after a while that so many Christians who lecture us on "following God's teaching" and tell us we are "going in the wrong direction" refuse to read the Bible in context.

Many gay Christians are at the point where they ridicule and/or ignore Christians like you because of your arrogance.

You have never studied the alleged anti-gay verses. You are incapable of discussing these verses intelligently. You cited no scripture and offered no arguments to support your opinion. You have not a clue about the context of the verses you believe forbid homosexuality.

Yet you deign to lecture us about following and obeying what God says. How I wish you would heed your own advice and "study to shew yourself approved unto God," 2 Timothy 2:15.




Aug 17, 2010
"TRUTH" is truth
by: Kevin

Yes Faith, I do know what precedes those words, "the truth will set you free." I have read studied and dissected them in their original language for 6 and a half years in seminary. As to following after my Lord and serving him, I've traveled the world in ministry, speaking to thousands of the gospel of Christ.

I've been blessed to lead hundreds to saving knowledge of our Savior. It makes me sad when christians who have decided to set themselves up as the judges of righteousness assume that because I'm gay, I am also ignorant of God's Word. They choose to read the scriptures in it weakest form, ENGLISH and come to wrong conclusions,based on "how it reads."

How the Bible reads in English is often misunderstood and obscured by western culture. In it's original language the Word becomes clear and vibrant. Like the difference between watching T.V. on a 19" black and white set as compared to a 60" HD LCD flatscreen TV.

Faith, before you speak of what you think you know, be sure. To speak in ignorance of the Word of truth brings consequences. Sadly many Christians condemn others based on what someone else said the Word of God says.

"BAD THEOLOGY" The application of Truth is that all God's Truth sets us free. The Scripture says, "rightly dividing the word" (2 Timothy 2:15). That phrase in Greek means to dissect as we would autopsy a body. That is how we are to study God's Word. Not to sit and and be told by a spiritual leader what the Word means and says. That's lazy theology.

Dear sister in the faith, please don't take this a a personal attack for it is not intended to be that! The fact is that as a gay Christian I've had to defend my faith and right to even be counted a brother in the faith, only because I'm gay. I've had to scripturally defend all I say and even my status as a child of God before my brothers and sisters in Christ.

For that reason it is important for me to study God's Word constantly. I speak from my heart when I say, "we must handle God's Word with understanding and integrity so as to teach the TRUTH and see it set people free." There is life everlasting in God's truth!

Sep 29, 2010
homosexuality is a sin.
by: Anonymous

One verse. Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; this is detestable." (NIV) Romans 1:27 also speaks of this perversion. Need i say more.

Sep 29, 2010
Wow, who knew?
by: Rick Brentlinger

Thanks anonymous for your "courage" and for your "deep intellectual insight" in posting those verses. Wow, who knew THOSE were in the Bible?

Do you know the context of those verses?

Have you bothered to read and study the context?

Do you really believe they mean what you think they mean?

I know you're not interested in truth but on the off-chance that you may eventually become interested, check out our NavBar under What The Bible Says.

Click on Lev 18:22 & 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.

Need I say more?


Oct 15, 2010
Condemnation
by: A Christian

Hey, my "opinion" doesn't count...nor yours. God's Word is the sole authority. S0 read Romans 1:26-27: "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Underline perversion.




Oct 15, 2010
To A Christian
by: Rick Brentlinger

I understand why you didn't deal with anything I wrote. I know how difficult it is for some Christians to deal with truth.

I have page after page on this website explaining the meaning of Romans 1:26-27 - click the NavBar button for Romans if you're interested in truth.

Many thanks for stopping by.

Oct 18, 2010
I wish I could persuade you...
by: Kyle

Re: Wow, who knew?

My heart breaks for you Rick. I wish you could see the Bible for what it truly is. It is the living truth of God. It does not mean what we want it to mean, our opinions don't matter. I am afraid you have taken the Bible sorely out of context, because I am not sure how you take Leviticus 18:22 out of context. It is very clear as to what it means. I have studied these verses and know their context. The Lord is telling us (in a very straight forward manner) what we are not to do sexually. That's it. The end. There is not much more to say on this chapter.

I am confused as to how you get anything else out of the chapter. I read your "What the Bible Says" on the subject and I disagree! You are just making the Bible say whatever you want. It is clear that He is not just talking about shrine prostitution. I still don't really understand how you came to that conclusion. Where did you find your information? You say "Many Christians assume the Bible says things it never says." but that sir, is exactly what you are doing. What if you are wrong?

The last thing I want to say, is that, even though I disagree with homosexuality and things like it, I do not hate the people. The Lord commands me as a Christian to love people. Therefore, I chose to love the people and hate the sin. That is completely Biblical. God hates sin, but He loves me, and I am a sinner. AWESOME!

Oct 28, 2010
You need to study your Bible
by: Rick Brentlinger

Kyle-

It is obvious you have not studied Lev 18:22 and 20:13. If you had bothered to study those chapters you would have noticed the following.

1. They are addressed to the children of Israel - Lev 18:2, 19:2, 20:2.

2. The context is worshiping false gods, Lev 18:3, 21, 20:2, 3, 4, 5, 23.

Kyle wrote: I read your "What the Bible Says" on the subject and I disagree! You are just making the Bible say whatever you want. It is clear that He is not just talking about shrine prostitution.

Its interesting that you disagree but you present zero evidence to support your disagreement.

Dr. Robert Gagnon, the leading anti-gay scholar, speaker and writer, devotes more than ten pages of his book (pages 100 to 110) to defending his belief that Lev 18:22 was written in the context of shrine prostitution.

I do not doubt that the circles out of which Lev 18:22 was produced had in view homosexual cult prostitution, at least partly. Homosexual cult prostitution appears to have been the primary form in which homosexual intercourse was practiced in Israel. -Dr. Robert Gagnon, The Bible and Homosexual Practice, p. 130

I hope you will obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and not assume that your cursory reading of Lev 18:22 counts as study.

Your comment about the Bible, "it does not mean what we want it to mean speaks strongly against your confused opinion on the meaning of Leviticus 18:22.

Nov 01, 2010
Principle of partnership
by: Anonymous

In 1 Corinthians 7:2 doesnt say anything about what you wrote,it states Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

where did you get anything about orientation
on from?

people always forget what Jesus said in Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
nothing on same sex or eunuchs.

I dont think its about hate as alot of people think,its living right or trying to,if youre trying to live like Christ, which is a mountain, then you have to try to be as sinful as possible,IF I was a gay person and wanted to live like that I guess I would too be trying to justify it,just as I would any sinful lifestyle,but I already know Ill get something on this to disagree. but in the end,ill say youll have to live your life as you see fit because we'll never agree,God will judge in the end.

Dec 03, 2010
It helps to read before commenting
by: RIck Brentlinger

Good night nurse Anonymous! Couldn't you trouble yourself to at least read the post and comments before commenting?

You quote Matthew 19 as if its new information and ignore the fact that the topic in the post is Ken's false interpretation of Matthew 19, which I quoted at the top of this page.

FYI, a principle is something we derive from scripture based on what scripture says.

Please obey the words in the photo at the top of this page. Many thanks!


Dec 05, 2010
...
by: Kyle

I feel that we will get nowhere in this conversation. I have other things to say but feel that I am going to just hit a brick wall with you. I am not going to argue with a man who is not willing to listen to the thoughts of others. I have taken what you said and learned from them. Not in the way you would like, but learned from them none the less. I thank you for that.

I think it is interesting that you answered all of my questions and comments (whether I agree with them or not, you tried), except one. And that is, if you are wrong?

Mar 06, 2011
God loves gay people
by: Shefali

I am a Christian, and I don't hate gay people. In fact, for the longest time, I believed that God thinks gay sex is sin because that is what pastors told me, and, in reading the Bible, that is how I understood key passages. However, even then, I would tell gay friends - I may not like your lifestyle, but I love you and God loves you.

I have invited gay friends who are not Christian to church functions because I do believe God loves them and if anyone had been rude to them because of their being gay I would have been very upset. Christ said to love our neighbors, and that includes gay neighbors.

I have known gay friends who love Jesus and who live in celibacy because that is what they feel God has called them to do. I know others who choose monogamy. I personally think that the type of "gay lifestyle" promoted by Hollywood and a sinful society of multiple bath-house encounters per year, etc., is wrong and sinful. However, what about a gay monogamous relationship?

I have concluded and decided that since Jesus says to look at the beam in my own eye and not the mote in my brother's, I am not going to judge a gay person who chooses to stay in a monogamous relationship. If he or she is sincerely in a prayer-ful, loving relationship with God, then that is an issue between him or her and God. Similarly, if a gay friend chooses celibacy - that is between him or her and God. Some gay people may CHOOSE to try to become straight - if that is their choice, I respect that too.

All that being said, I cannot in good conscience agree with gay marriage. I will pray about this some more. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right. God knows the truth and I will ask for His guidance. Don't get me wrong - I believe gay people love just like straight people do, they have the same deep emotions, etc. But I don't necessarily find your arguments for gay marriage convincing, and there are semantics and so on that incline me against it. However, right now I'd be fine with some kind of civil union for gay people so that things like inheritance rights, etc., can be dealt with.

I do think you should be careful not to stereotype everyone who is against gay marriage as someone who hates gay people. A lot of us feel genuine love for gays as our neighbors but have reservations about gay marriage... and, who knows, perhaps this is something that, with more time and thought and prayer, we will come to agreement on.

I do think, BTW, that it is a good thing you have your site up because gay people do need to know that God loves them.

Mar 14, 2011
Marriage et al.
by: Rob

So far everything I have read on this site pertains to heterosexual lifestyles. Even your rebuttals point of pologymists and incest are Heterosexual. Please point out specifically where the Homosexual lifestyle is ok'd biblically. I am not asking because i ma being a smart aleck, I truly want to know.

On a side note I find it a bit ironic albiet also a bit stereotypical and insulting that my CAPTCHA for this post is FAERIE.

Mar 15, 2011
Did you miss Jonathan and David?
by: Rick Brentlinger

Keep reading Rob. I have lots of Bible based information about Jonathan and David and the gay centurion too.

As far as your assertion that everything on the website pertains to heterosexual lifestyles, the point of mentioning polygamy and incest is to present Biblical exceptions to the absolute Complementarity argument of our detractors. By providing clear Biblical exceptions, I have proven that complementarity is NOT absolute.

If complementarity is not absolute, as illustrated by Biblical examples of polygamous and incestuous marriage relationships, then their argument against gay marriage is debunked.

About the FAERIE Captcha, that may be nothing more than serendipity.

Mar 26, 2011
Sin is sin.
by: Anonymous

The Bible is clear that homosexual relationships are not right in God's sight. It is no different from the many other lifestyles or behaviors He tells us we are not to engage in. You can play with meanings and translations and contexts all day long but in the end you are merely trying to justify what you want the Bible to say when it clearly does not say it. I can admit I am a sinner. i know the things I do are wrong and I don't try to justify them. I understand that every church is full of all kinds of sinners who can't or wont even attempt to allow God to bring their life or lifestyle under conviction but to try to justify yourselves as not sinners is just as ridiculous.

Mar 26, 2011
Goofy and illogical
by: Rick Brentlinger

I love it! Anonymous is so absolutely sure that the Bible supports his beliefs, he doesn't have to cite any scriptures in context or make any arguments.

Instead of thoughtful presentation of his beliefs, he ridicules us for presenting scriptures in context, placing proper emphasis on the meaning of words.

Amazing!

Do you really think your lazy illogic will pass muster at the judgment seat of Christ?

My brother, I encourage you to obey 1 Peter 3:15.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asks you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"

Apr 16, 2011
What Amber thinks God says about homosexuality
by: Amber

Leviticus 20:13 says "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Clearly, God is saying here that homosexuality is a sin. He states in clear black-and-white that he does not support homosexual sex. So why would he support homosexual marriage? Marriage is suppose to unite two people, spiritually and sexually.

After all, in 1 Corinthians 7:2-5, Paul says:

"But in order to avoid sexual sins, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband. Husbands and wives should satisfy each others' sexual needs. A wife doesn't have authority over her own body, but her husband does. In the same way, a husband doesn't have authority over his own body, but his wife does. Don't withhold yourselves from each other unless you agree to do so for a set time to devote yourselves to prayer. Then you should get back together so that Satan doesn't use your lack of self-control to tempt you."

So, clearly God intended a married couple to have sexual relations. So, if he says that homosexual sex is wrong, then why would he support homosexual marriage? Marriage and sex go hand in hand.


Apr 17, 2011
Homosexuality and gay marriage are not sinful
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Amber-

Thanks for stopping by. I'll allow your first comment but I don't allow anti-gay folks to post multiple long comments proclaiming their opinion that homosexuality and gay marriage are wrong. The Bible clearly does NOT say what you think it says.

I hope you'll take time to look at the NavBar under What The Bible Says, where you will notice that I deal extensively with all the clobber passages. I do believe it will be profitable for you to do more study.

Jun 27, 2011
Hearing what you want to hear
by: Anonymous

I think anybody can take something and make it to be what they want. I personally believe and will always believe that homosexuality is a sin. I just was wondering why I would say 80 percent of your reasoning for it to be ok was based upon polygamy.

Also I researched some info about Matthew 19:12.

"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Do you know what a eunuch is? The writers are claiming that they are gay people but this is not true at all. A eunuch is a male or female that is unable or chooses not to partake in sexual things. So some, mainly regarding men, are born unable to get aroused so they can't have sex. Then back in the day people were castrated so they couldn't perform sexually. And then finally, some people choose to not have sex or marry like the pope.

And finally if you read the views of complementarity, that is absolutely rediculous. How can you say that christian views are based upon Plato's views because of this guys views. I can tell you that 99 percent of christians don't believe that and probably have never even heard of it, including myself.

I will personally be praying for all of you because hell is a very bad place and I would hate for you to go there.

Jun 27, 2011
Biblical answers, in context
by: Rick Brentlinger

Polygamy is used as an analogy because if there are several Biblical exceptions to the Adam and Eve template (like polygamy and celibacy), then we know, based on what the Bible says, in context, that complementarity is not absolute.

If complementarity (one man with one woman for life) is not absolute, then it is wrong and unbiblical to say an Adam and Eve type marriage is the only marriage God will truly bless.

I agree with you - you did a LITTLE research - so little that your conclusions are wrong. I hope you will continue to educate yourself by obeying 2 Timothy 2:15.

I believe you need to reread our material about Complementarity and Plato. There is a clear link between modern anti-gay teaching by Christians and what Plato the pagan Greek taught 400 years before the birth of Christ.

Jun 29, 2011
Lets think about this
by: Paul

Rev Rick- I have read and i know how you have disproved "all quotations" that attest to the "fact" that homosexuality is a sin and to put it better an abomination!

Maybe i will give you some quotations in the Quran "though i'm a christian" so you can reconsider what "all" your "spirit led" analyses of homosexuality is about! Read these(Quran 4:15-16,7:80-82,26:165-175,27:55-58,29:28-29)

And about Polygamy read: Acts 17:30- God winked his eyes and allowed certain things in the past because men were not in the state to receive the original purpose of everything

it is also true that Jesus accepts homosexuals as persons but not homosexuality as an act.

i know you've done a lot of research to prove your points but come to think of these!? have you ever seen two male or female "animals" mating? I pray that the same God you prayed to speaks to you again!

let me leave you with this last quotation and i believe you get out from being a victim!
1 cor 4:3-4

Jun 29, 2011
We always interpret scripture in context, 2 Tim 2:15
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Paul- Many Christians make it a hobby to take verses which are talking about shrine prostitution out of context and attempt to convince the unwary that the verses are really talking about homosexuality.

Those of us who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil, Hebrews 5:14, do not fall for that con-game.

Muhamed claimed to be possessed by demons. Nothing he is quoted as saying in the Quran is relevant to Christians and the topic of homosexuality.

Concerning polygamy, it will be helpful to read, What does the Bible say about polygamy and open relationships?

This page discusses polygamy in more depth.

You may also be interested in the New York Times Magazine article, Can animals be gay?

I leave you with 1 Cor 2:13-

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Jun 30, 2011
Please you didn't answer my simple question..
by: Paul

i asked if you've ever seen two male or female animals "MATING"... please i need your comment about that!

And with the polygamy. i quoted Acts 17:30 to inform you of how God overlooked many things in the times of old Testament!

Do you know that the church is the bride of God (Christ)..Have you ever considered why God always warned the israelites of committing "adultery" when ever they go after other gods?(Jer 3:8,7:9, Eze 23:37) the famous Exo 20:3..

Spiritually serving other gods apart from GOD alone is a polygamy adultery and it has the same principles in the physical marriage!

God always has the divine reasons for anything and the fact that he allowed men to go on with their swayed life doesn't mean he approves it!

can you show me a single quotation in the new testament that supports polygamy or homosexuality?

Of course you may try to quote and misinterpret one or two verses claiming it is for idol prostitution! but check these out!
1 cor 6:9...abusers of themselves!

Come to think of it, if even demon possed Mohamed could clearly state Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for this abominable homosexual act. what are you God possessed Rick saying!

i know am never in the position now to SAVE you because you've gone FAR! with justifying what is spiritually and physically wrong! but i pray that He who met zealous saul on the way will meet you on your sinful journey!....Amen



Jun 30, 2011
Well isn't that special!
by: Rick Brentlinger








Well, isn't that special! Are you really suggesting we should inform our reason based on your speculations about animal sexuality?

Yes, I know that the church is Christs bride. Are you aware that the bride of Christ contains men who are going to marry a man, Jesus Christ?

Your method of witnessing by insult is funny and a bit sad. I pray God you will learn to walk in the Spirit, Galatians 5:16, as you grow to Christian maturity.

Jul 06, 2011
Very clear!
by: Paul

Matthew 19:4-5 - Jesus clearly states that in the beginning God created male and female(wife) for the purpose of establishing marriage as between man and wife.

lets consider Gen 1:28. God commanded man to multiply because all arrangements for multiplying were made when he created man and woman!

i know you will bear with me that neither two male or two female couples can fulfill the principle of multiplying.

so what will that mean to God (JESUS "if only you believe in the Trinity")when one tries to disobey this simple principle by marrying the same sex?

of course these will be the possible conclusions to God.

1.God is unwise in asking man to multiply

2.God should have created the male to give birth!

but remember, "adoption of a child is not procreation or multiplication"

i keep praying for you Rev Rick..because am believing God He will use you "the same person" to save people from this abomination of homosexuality! Amen!

Jul 06, 2011
Answers to the, be fruitful and multiply, argument
by: Rick Brentlinger

Your prayers are much appreciated Paul, although praying for God to use me as a soul-winner and Bible teacher in the GLBT community would be more helpful.

Here are three Bible-based answers which address your "be fruitful and multiply" argument. Enjoy.

Does be fruitful and multiply cancel gay marriage?

Isn?t the Bible pretty clear that gay marriage is wrong?

Are gay relationships always outside God?s created order?

Jul 26, 2011
It's not always as simple as it may seem
by: kevin S.

As I read the many comments of those who express a anti gay view of The Bible I Continually observe them quoting the words of the text in its English form and saying QUOTE: It says what it says. It's clear, why can't you see that? My answer to that statement is, NO, it's not always as clear as you seem to think.

1. The books of the Bible were not originally written in English. The Old Testament was in Hebrew and Syriac (Aramaic) and the New Testament in Koine Greek.

2. The first translation of the entire Bible to be printed in English was the Coverdale Bible in 1535.

3. Translating one language into another is very difficult because of history, culture and idiomatic phrases. We use phrases in our society that would be difficult for foreigners to understand, like cool, dude, my crib, my ride.

4. The English translations spans hundreds of years and thousands of words.

5. We read culture into our meanings of words. In England, a FAG is a cigarette. In the U.S.A. some people would call me a fag (slang for a gay man).

All these factors and many more must be considered when translating and then interpreting the Bible. The impact of these factors on the translation can mean you get it right or you miss it completely. When Rick and others speak of context, content, culture and historic usages of words, this is what they are referring to.

Much of the Bible is as simple to understand as drinking milk but there are areas that are more difficult, like chewing tough meat. Sometimes an exhaustive study even in a easy area will shed new light in your heart and understanding. So, the next time you are quoting verses on a difficult subject, I suggest you go far beyond the words on the page and do some serious bible study.

Before you pass judgment and condemn a whole group of people (some brothers and sisters in Christ), you should check, double check and scrutinize your facts. 2 Tim. 2:15 STUDY(autopsy) the scriptures!!!!! You will be held accountable for your words. If you push someone away from a saving knowledge of Jesus, even as a believer, you have become an enemy of the cross.

We are called to preach that we are all sinners and need the Savior. We are called to preach the Gospel. Please brothers and sisters in Christ, let us put down the stones and REASON together! Healthy debate is good but hurtful and angry words distance and damage people.

Jul 31, 2011
Human
by: Anonymous

I believe God wants his children to be happy. Believe in God and accept Jesus into your heart, THAT is what is most important. If murderers and rapists can be Christian, then I am positive homosexuals can be to. God does not want us to judge others.

I have not studied the Bible, so I can't and won't say what the Bible says...

...in the Bible, the message and hope that it gives is not being questioned. Just take into consideration that specific words may... may have been taken out of context.

Sep 27, 2011
to June 27 Anonymous and your Plato comment
by: amy

Anonymous - Your comment about Plato, that you never heard of such things, and how most christians you know have never heard of such things: Exactly!

Many other people have heard of such things, it influenced thinking and writing, and made its way to you. However you could know if you chose to and we are responsible for seeking and finding. You are not a child.

I won't even try and get my head wrapped around the whole Anonymous Comment thing but I can't ignore the fact that Anonymous Comments belong almost exclusively to those who are uninformed and extremely angry.

Sep 29, 2011
Repentance is not accepting Christ in sin but replacing sin with christ
by: Anonymous

i read the comments of a anonymous claiming if rapist and murderers can come to the saving knowledge of christ, so can homosexauls.....

this is 100% true...bcs christ loves sinners "actors" but hates sin "act"... but remember an arm robber will not continue in armed robbery after acceptng christ because the act itself is bad and that is why he did accept christ..

you dont accept christ to justify what is sinful but justify the sinner...and homosexuality is not an exclusion....the homosexual is accepted by christ but not homosexuality...

what do i mean No homosexual should be condemned in christ but the act of homosexaulity should...

lets consider the scenario of the woman caught in fornication....jesus replied in john 8:11" ...neither do i condemn thee(the actor)...SIN NO MORE "the act"./..

so you see the issue here is not about condemning homosexuals to saving power in christ..but the act and until Rick and his people accept that the act is sinful..then the saving grace of the Lord is made VAIN in their lives(2 cor 6:1)..and that is dangerous...

God loves us and he need us to manifest true repentance in christ by changing from our sins and mind you...homosexuality is not only a sin but an ABOMINATION!...

Sep 29, 2011
Clever way to dodge everything I wrote
by: Rick Brentlinger

Before anyone can accept your, homosexuality is sin argument, you must prove it using scriptures in context.

You didn't even attempt to do that because you know that no verse of scripture in context, says what you believe about homosexuality.

Your hate the sin, love the sinner argument is incredibly unloving. You cannot separate your heterosexuality from who you are as a person. If I claim to love you but hate your heterosexuality, you would agree that is quite stupid. It's impossible to love you as a person but hate who you are as a person.

In the same way, we cannot separate being born homosexual from who we are as people. When you claim to love us but hate who we are as people, you are really claiming to hate us.

Will you always condemn your gay brothers and lesbian sisters in such a thoughtless unloving unBiblical way?

Sep 29, 2011
love the sinner hate the sin
by: AMY

Just a comment to anonymous. As always, as far as I am concerned, if you are not willing to put your name one should reconsider their hearts purpose in writing.

A. Christians generally don't practice loving the sinner and hating the sin and I think you and I both know that. I believe it is possible, and good, however that would require you to spend a lot of time taking the log out of your own eye. But christians sure do love to throw that verse around a lot; as if saying it is the same as a heart transformation.

B. There is nothing about this website that indicates that people who follow Jesus and love Jesus would not be kind and loving to people, or would in any way want to keep them from that relationship with Jesus. That has nothing to do with the content of this site at all.

C. Please tell me, after becoming a christian, have you gone and sinned no more? Are you sin free? Is your heart completely out of debt?

Please, I really would like a heartfelt answer to that question. And to be frank, after making that comment, and throwing that out there, you should be prepared to answer that. Thanks!

Sep 29, 2011
by Kevin Schupp
Homophobes are not good theologians

by: Anonymous

Dear Anonymous, I will make this one point one more time for all you ANONYMOUS commenter; be a man or a woman and stop hiding your anti gay rhetoric behind the curtain of anonymity. What?s your name? If you believe what you say is true, than you should have the courage of your convictions to take credit for your beliefs. Otherwise how can the readers take you seriously or give you any credibility?

Your comments are so theologically flawed and off the wall, that to address each point would require a college course. So I will address only two of your statements.

POINT #1 - What is REPENTANCE? Koine Greek words: Meatanoeo or Metanoia - The meaning of the word: TO CHANGE YOUR MIND OR A CHANGE OF MIND. TO THINK DIFFERENTLY

It does not mean; REGRET, SORROW FOR SIN, CHANGING YOUR BEHAVIOR, GIVING UP SIN, TURNING FROM SIN etc. or any other of the misinterpretations of the Greek word preached in many so called evangelical, fundamentalist churches.

??manifest true repentance in Christ by changing from our sins??Is not theologically correct. If you are going to preach, do your homework.

POINT #2 - BAD THEOLOGY: Christ loves sinners "actors" but hates sin "act"... but remember an arm robber will not continue in armed robbery after accepting Christ because the act itself is bad and that is why he did accept Christ..

BIBLICALLY SOUND THEOLOGY: Romans 3:23 All have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned everyone to his own way.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 For there is not a just man upon the earth, that doeth good and sinneth not.

1. Christ died for sinners.
2. We all are sinners.
3. We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are sinners. (It is our nature to sin.)
4. Stopping our sinning will not make us perfect. Just good ole boy sinners.
5. We receive Christ?s payment for sin to give us (positional) perfection which is required to go to Heaven.
6. We remain sinners (as long as we are in our sinful bodies) with our sins covered (atoned for) by the shed blood of Jesus. We are commanded to confess our sins.
7. Though the robber may halt his robbery, he remains a sinner.
8. If a chronic robber told me he had stopped robbing. I?d know he had not stopped but merely added lying to his sin of robbery.

In conclusion; Anonymous, your ramblings in semantics have nothing to do with Biblical truth.




Dec 26, 2011
Where's the defense?
by: Larry

i admit the idea of polygamy may be accepted by God (i have NOT researched the issue to say yes or no)you did NOT make the case for homosexuality.Do you have any BIBLICAL evidence that God approves of homosexuality?
also:
1. all biblical references to marriage (polygamous or not) are between MALE and FEMALE. Jesus ONLY affirms MALE and FEMALE and even makes a point to reiterate it when he quotes from Genesis.
2. on 1 Cor 7: Paul said its better to MARRY. marriage is ALWAYS between MALE and FEMALE so there is no actual basis for the statement you made "It also leaves open the strong probability that God intended the 5% of humans who are same sex attracted to be same sex partnered." just from the exegesis of the passage you are wrong. Paul also said in ch 6 :
"Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

either Paul is contradicting himself or your interpretation is wrong.

Paul condemns homosexuality in Romans 1:26-27

Leviticus 18 is an entire chapter of sexual provisions. you select 1 to disobey. should we have sex with animals now v23,our siblings v9 or aunt & uncle v12-14 our neighbors wife v20 can we sacrifice our children to molek now v21?
God ends lev 18 with this:
Do not defile yourselves in ANY of these ways, because this is how the NATIONS that I am going to drive out before you became DEFILED. Even the land was defiled; so I PUNISHED it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants.But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these DETESTABLE things, for ALL these things were done by the people who lived in the land BEFORE you (meaning non Jews), and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the DETESTABLE customs that were practiced before you came and DO NOT defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.
Lev 18:24-30

This is separate from other clean and unclean ceremonial laws. God judged NON Jews for these sins. so this is NOT a matter of Law vs Grace.
so, if God hated it then, and he destroyed NON JEWS for it what makes you think He finds it acceptable now?

i would love to further discuss this issue with anyone who is willing to have an educated civil discussion and exchange of ideas and positions. if you just want to rant and rave and call me names i have no time for you. you can email me at YeshuaEloki@hotmail.com


Dec 26, 2011
Response to Kevin S - 26 July 11
by: larry

i just wanted to correct a MAJOR wrong statement made by one of the commenters. he said that the first english translation was the king james version in 1611 which is so wrong i am actually shocked the mediator did not correct him. the first english translation was actually by john wycliffe in the 1380's. here is a simple link to learn a little about where we got our English translation.


Dec 26, 2011
Time to educate yourself Larry
by: Rick Brentlinger

Larry, I notice you did not address anything I wrote in my post. Instead of obeying 2 Timothy 2:15 and studying the scriptures, you contented yourself with parroting the same false information so many others give.

If I didn't have 650 pages of information on this website, which answer your false information, I could understand why you might remain confused. Yet I DO have 650 pages of high-quality factually correct Biblically accurate info on this website. I hope at some point you will discard the idea that you already know it all so you can obey 2 Tim 2:15 and resume your Bible study.

Concerning your false information: To make the case for homosexuality, we begin by demonstrating that complementarianism, your false teaching that God will only bless a one man with one woman for life marriage, is Biblically false. I did that in the post which you apparently did not read.

We also do that by showing that polygamy in the Bible, one man with more than one woman, is accepted and blessed by God. Did you bother to look up the verses I cited above? Everything you believe about heterosexual marriage and homosexuality flows from your erroneous views about Adam and Eve.

Oddly enough, you only apply your method of interpreting scripture to gay people. You don't use that method of interpretation where it affects your life. You don't apply that method of interpreting scripture to transportation, for example, because if you applied the same logic to transportation, you couldn't drive your car or truck or ride your motorcycle or travel on a bus or an airplane.

The following is my humble attempt to illustrate the absurdity of your hermeneutic by using precisely the same logic you use.

God only affirms a few kinds of transportation in the Bible: walking, riding a donkey, horse or camel, boats or small ships. No other kind of transportation is mentioned in the Bible. Transportation in the Bible is ALWAYS on foot or by four legged animal or by boat.

Do you have any Biblical evidence that God approves of pickup trucks?

Hey, I think I'm getting the hang of your kind of Bible interpretation. This is kinda fun.

Sarcasm: "Hey you! Yeah, the guy getting out of the pickup truck. You're a filthy sinner! Why do you hate God? Why do you rebel against the clear teaching of scripture on transportation? Turn or burn!

Oh no! Are you eating a pulled pork sandwich? Did you have shrimp cocktail with dinner last night? Seriously dude? You are an abomination! That is detestable! How dare you flaunt the clear teaching of Leviticus about not eating pork and shrimp? Get right or get left sucker!" End sarcasm.

If you are seriously interested in understanding Romans 1:26-27 and Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 and 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10, please click on the NavBar Links under, What The Bible Says, and begin factoring in context when you read the Bible, 2 Timothy 2:15. Many thanks Larry.

Dec 26, 2011
RE: Larry's correction of my statements of July 26th
by: Kevin S.

Larry, my contextual intent was to refer to the earliest BIBLE translation which was printed in English. Rick will correct my comment to reflect that that was the Coverdale Bible, 1535. Thank you brother.

Dec 27, 2011
Post about the first English Bible to be printed now corrected
by: Rick Brentlinger

Larry, thanks for pointing out that there were English Bibles before the King James Version. Kevin and I both know that and yet we both got it wrong.

The 1384 Wycliffe Bible was hand-written because the printing press had not been invented when Wycliffe did his translation.

I've edited Kevin's earlier comment to reflect that the first complete Bible to be printed in the English language was the Coverdale Bible in 1535.

I appreciate the heads up on my sloppy editing. I approved that comment from an Internet cafe while on vacation in California without reading it carefully enough.

Jan 23, 2012
What 1 Cor 1-9 Really Says
by: Eric T

Nowhere in this scripture appears the word companion. You are misquoting

1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Jan 24, 2012
sorry it took so long
by: larry

I have followed 2 Tim 2:15 and I am properly reading and interpreting scripture. Yes, you have 650 pages full of your attempts to prove your position to be true. Muslims have thousands of pages doing the same thing, Mormons as well, wiccans too. You name the group, there is a website that supports their cause. I made my case very clear. The bible does not support homosexual activity. You are digging, twisting, turning and stretching every little thing you can to attempt to support your personal desires.

You said that I am a complementarian, well, while I personally believe this to be true based on the words of Jesus, I admitted to you that based on the information you provided, it is POSSIBLE that God is ok with polygamy. But regardless, it is still heterosexual. U did NOT make the case for homosexual relationships.

But, even with that, Jesus also made it clear that certain things were over looked or allowed because the hardness of mens hearts, God hates divorce yet he allowed it in the law. Polygamous kings could very well be in the same category. What we do see it that polygamous relationships in the bible always produced strife and problems. Just b/c God makes something good come out of a problem does not mean it was a good thing. Jesus came from the off spring of Davids adulterous relationship with Bathshiba, are you going to say that God blesses adultery now?

Ur attempt to say that this is similar to our views on transportation is not real exegesis my friend. You have created a false dichotomy. Scripture is clear on what the purpose of sex is and the purpose of marriage. There is no purpose for transportation other than reaching a physical destination. Sex is spiritual. So, its not the same thing and u r misapplying the logic. If God had said that you should ONLY ride a donkey or ONLY walk or if he would have said that if you travel on anything other than a equine that you are committing a detestable act, THEN you could make this case.


One thing u failed to mention about lev 18:22 is the word H2145 זָכָר zakar means male, not prostitute. If homosexuality is only wrong if ur having sex with a prostitute, then is child sacrifice only wrong if you sacrifice it to Molech? Is bestiality only wrong if you do it in some sort of shrine way? If you discount homosexuality, then you MUST discount child sacrifice to any god other than Molech and bestiality.

Jan 24, 2012
Exceptions prove that complementarianism is not absolute
by: Rick Brentlinger

The point of bringing up polygamy is that it disproves absolute complementarianism. Your one man with one woman belief system can only stand if complementarianism is absolute. By citing God's blessing on polygamy, I have proven that complementarianism is not absolute.

On transportation, if you think it through, my example of transportation is precisely the logic you employ. The Bible doesn't limit us to only using the kinds of transportation mentioned in the Bible. Likewise, the Bible doesn't say that the only acceptable marriage is between a man and a woman. You add that into the text because the text doesn't say it.

Concerning child sacrifice being okay as long as you're not sacrificing your child to Molech, No, that is the wrong conclusion. I give nine thoughtful answers to that illogical argument on the Beastiality page.

Jan 25, 2012
...a sealed mind....
by: Paul

still with the hope of change, i believe Ricks mind is sealed with his numerous self "twisted" analogies concerning Polugamy and worst of all homosexuality

i realy side with larry....u see Acts 17:30...says God overlooked many things (which includes polygamy) ....but now commands us to REPENT......

the fact that God allowed certain evil things because of the ignorance of the people by then does not make it right....
i hv exhausted all my view in my ealier comments and will not say much...

I pray God reveal unto you the truth about this,stay bless

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