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Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians?

Rick Brentlinger Answers -

No, its not all about sex. You have a very shallow idea about what gay and lesbian partnerships are all about. Being gay or lesbian is an innate orientation. According to Jesus, its the way we're born, Matthew 19:12.

With very few exceptions, being gay or lesbian is not chosen - its an innate characteristic - as normal as blond hair or blue eyes or left-handedness.

I hope you have the emotional maturity to understand that sex is not the sum total of homosexual partner- ships any more than it is the sum total of heterosexual partnerships.

Intimate relationships, whether we call them marriage or a committed partnership (since gays are not allowed to legally marry in most places), are about emotional and romantic attachment. They are about spiritual, psychological and emotional support. They are about companionship with someone who matches your sexual orientation.

You may be interested to know that the August 31, 2009, Christianity Today, had an interesting article about single heterosexuals and sex. Here's a brief quote.

"Indeed, over 90 percent of American adults experience sexual intercourse before marrying. The percentage of evangelicals who do so is not much lower.

In a nationally representative study of young adults, just under 80 percent of unmarried, church- going, conservative Protestants who are currently dating someone are having sex of some sort."

One is almost tempted to reply:
Isn't it all about sex
for you heterosexuals?"

Gay Marriages are an important civil right.

We've dealt with the question: Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians? Click here to return to Gay Christian 101 Home Page.

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Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians?

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Sep 25, 2009
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by: Dorothy

Great response, Rick. You nailed it.

Oct 01, 2009
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Maine
by: Pat

Jesus in Matthew 19 is declaring that not everyone can participate in the blessings of marriage as constituted by God. Marriage is not for everyone but this does not make one less significant or less fulfilled. This included Jesus himself.

Therefore, isn't this all about having sex? Isn't sex the summum bonum (the highest good) in our idolatrous culture?

Clearly this is an issue with heterosexuals too as nearly 50% of church members are divorced. It is my belief that Christians should not be about imposing God's laws on others in regards to same sex civil unions.

But please stop trying to justify practicing homosexuality as being acceptable when the real desire is to worship the the god of sexual pleasure.

Oct 06, 2009
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Pat only speaks for Pat
by: Rick

Pat-

Your condemnation of homosexuals is unkind and way off the beam. You don't view heterosexual partnerships as being "all about worshiping the god of sexual pleasure" so why view gay couples that way?

It sounds like you've never met loving, committed gay and lesbian couples. Our committed partnerships are about far more than sex.

I hope you will take the time to educate yourself beyond the incorrect views you currently hold.

Oct 11, 2009
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Misunderstanding Pat
by: Gene

Rick, You have clearly misunderstood Pat's question and comments. Sex and marriage are not the same thing.

Sex is only to be practiced within the covenant of marriage. And marriage does not make one less fulfilled as Jesus knew himself. Therefore, neither does sex.

One with homosexual inclinations does not need to act upon it just as a heterosexual outside of marriage should either. Those with homosexual inclinations are not to ACT on their sexual desires.

The only way to get around all of this is to say that homosexuals can marry. But this is NOT what God's intention for marriage is. Homosexuals are not in God's intention of marriage and therefore are called to a life of celibacy.

It IS NOT A CURSE as Pat is stating because marriage (and therefore sex) does not define fulfillment. However our culture that makes sex the "summa bonum", has convinced us THAT A LIFE OF NOT HAVING SEX IS UNFULFILLING.

This is clearly not true as is the case for Jesus and the enochs and homosexuals who have not acted upon the lie of the culture. Also, I would like to comment on your unfair condemnation of Pat.

His/her disagreement does not mean he/she is condemning. Jesus could disagree and still love just as we can too. He clearly loved the adultress who was being stoned but told her to go and sin no more.

We can indeed love the sinner and hate the sin. I do it every morning when I look in the mirror! God bless..

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Oct 11, 2009
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Submitted by: Gene

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Rick, You have clearly misunderstood Pat's question and comments. Sex and marriage are not the same thing. Sex is only to be practiced within the covenant of marriage. And marriage does not make one less fulfilled as Jesus knew himself. Therefore, neither does sex. One with homosexual inclinations does not need to act upon it just as a heterosexual outside of marriage should either. Those with homosexual inclinations are not to ACT on their sexual desires. The only way to get around all of this is to say that homosexuals can marry. But this is NOT what God's intention for marriage is. Homosexuals are not in God's intention of marriage and therefore are called to a life of celibacy. It IS NOT A CURSE as Pat is stating because marriage (and therefore sex) does not define fulfillment. However our culture that makes sex the "summa bonum", has convinced us THAT A LIFE OF NOT HAVING SEX IS UNFULFILLING. This is clearly not true as is the case for Jesus and the enochs and homosexuals who have not acted upon the lie of the culture. Also, I would like to comment on your unfair condemnation of Pat. His/her disagreement does not mean he/she is condemning. Jesus could disagree and still love just as we can too. He clearly loved the adultress who was being stoned but told her to go and sin no more. We can indeed love the sinner and hate the sin. I do it every morning when I look in the mirror! God bless..

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Oct 14, 2009
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Thanks Gene
by: Pat

Thanks Gene. I would certainly never condemn anyone as I'm unqualified and incapable as a sinner myself!! I speak with compassion for the homosexual but also with conviction that it is indeed a sin. But it is no different than any other sin as you affirm with heterosexuals who practice sex outside of marriage. God created sexuality and it is good, but it can be expressed in a broken way. We all can practice sex in broken ways from God's intention. My prayer is that those with homosexual inclinations will know that God created them perfectly, not cursed. I pray that they will know that even though the culture places having sex as the summa bonum that this is indeed a lie. Homosexuals can live the fulfilling life God intends by placing what the culture says is a curse under the blessing of God. A life of celibacy for the homosexual can be a thorn as I believe the great writer Henri Nouwen knew, and yet it also an opportunity to lean on God and depend on God. Blessings to Rick and Gene---

Oct 15, 2009
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Gene and Pat
by: Rick Brentlinger

To my knowledge, nowhere on this website do I equate sex and marriage. I think you two, while viewing yourselves as speaking the truth in love, have missed the doctrinal mark by a wide margin.

The Bible clearly lays down the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:1-9, that most people need a physical outlet for sex which does not expose them to the moral and spiritual chaos of fornication. Yet I'm sure you would not accuse Paul or God of equating sex and marriage.

I Corinthians 7:1-9 also makes clear that celibacy is a gift from God. It is not something you can impose on every gay and lesbian person. God never gave you that authority and the Bible never asserts that gays and lesbians can never be in a loving, committed, non-cultic same sex marriage.

Concerning marriage, you both seem to read into scripture what scripture never says, that if a marriage is not exactly like the Adam and Eve partnership, then God cannot bless it.

Millions of gays and lesbians down the centuries have learned by experience that God does bless their intimate committed partnerships.

I know that seems impossible to you two yet you accept without question that God blessed Abraham and Sarah and Hagar's polygamous marriage.

You view King David as a type of Christ and yet he had at least six wives whose names are recorded in scripture plus his intimate friendship with Crown Prince Jonathan.

If Abraham and Sarah showed up at your church this Sunday, would you invite them to preach or teach, knowing that they were in a lifelong incestuous marriage PLUS a polygamous marriage?

The point is that God can and does bless marriage partnerships which are outside the Adam and Eve paradigm.

Blessings to you as you walk the path of God's purpose for your lives.

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Oct 15, 2009
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Submitted by: Rick Brentlinger

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To my knowledge, nowhere on this website do I equate sex and marriage. I think you two, while viewing yourselves as speaking the truth in love, have missed the doctrinal mark by a wide margin. The Bible clearly lays down the principle in 1 Corinthians 7:1-9, that most people need a physical outlet for sex which does not expose them to the moral and spiritual chaos of fornication. Yet I'm sure you would not accuse Paul or God of equating sex and marriage. I Corinthians 7:1-9 also makes clear that celibacy is a gift from God. It is not something you can impose on every gay and lesbian person. God never gave you that authority and the Bible never asserts that gays and lesbians can never be in a loving, committed, non-cultic same sex marriage. Concerning marriage, you both seem to read into scripture what scripture never says, that if a marriage is not exactly like the Adam and Eve partnership, then God cannot bless it. Millions of gays and lesbians down the centuries have learned by experience that God does bless their intimate committed partnerships. I know that seems impossible to you two yet you accept without question that God blessed Abraham and Sarah and Hagar's polygamous marriage. You view King David as a type of Christ and yet he had at least six wives whose names are recorded in scripture plus his intimate friendship with Crown Prince Jonathan. If Abraham and Sarah showed up at your church this Sunday, would you invite them to preach or teach, knowing that they were in a lifelong incestuous marriage PLUS a polygamous marriage? The point is that God can and does bless marriage partnerships which are outside the Adam and Eve paradigm. Blessings to you as you walk the path of God's purpose for your lives.

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Oct 15, 2009
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I was just talking about this...
by: Anonymous

Very intriguing article, I must say--I, myself, was just conversing over this subject with my friend, because we support homosexuals but have often heard that they're very sexually active; we never knew how that stereotype came to be.

This is an interesting website, I can tell--I'm tempted to explore farther than this article, alone. This was one of the biggest questions I had about being in a gay relationship, and it's nice to have it answered, so I thank you for posting this and making remarkable, convincing points. :)

Oct 21, 2009
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We're not all sex-crazed
by: Anonymous

Hey, just stumbled across this site. To the comment about homosexuals being very sexually active....

I'm in a long term lesbian relationship (5 yrs) and it's a totally committed and faithful relationship. Yes, there are people (gay and straight) who are promiscuous and unfaithful but please remember this isn't a problem that?s only in the gay community.

Also TV shows head-hunt nutters who are a poor example of 'homosexuals' (and humanity generally) because they like ratings and everyday normal gay people don't make interesting Television.

Sadly though, people get the impression we're all drug taking sex addicts when the reality is (WHISPERS) most of us are rather boring.

Oct 23, 2009
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Sex outside of marriage
by: Anonymous

Thanks for bringing up 1 Corinthians 7: 1-9. It makes the point that any sex outside of marriage is not God's intent. Jesus speaks in Matthew 19 that marriage is between a man and a woman. In regards to the polygamist argument, God blesses ALL of us. We are all under God's blessing. Rick is once again playing the judge as Gene and Pat point out about Rick).

The point of all of this is that when we choose to live our way (having sex even in a committed homosexual/lesbian relationship or a committed heterosexual relationship) WE choose to live outside of God's blessing because it is not in marriage as God intended between a man and woman. You clearly know this but are choosing to not hear.

As the great theologian and philosopher Kierkegaard rightly points out:

"The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be able to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church's prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming to close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you?

Kierkegaard is speaking to the swindlers who are trying to twist scripture to their benefit. To justify any sex (committed or not) outside of marriage (homosexual or heterosexual) is an act of a scheming swindler. To justify marriage outside of God's intent between a man and woman is also an act of a scheming swindler.

Your life is NOT ruined by remaining celibate!

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Oct 23, 2009
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Submitted by: Anonymous

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Thanks for bringing up 1 Corinthians 7: 1-9. It makes the point that any sex outside of marriage is not God's intent. Jesus speaks in Matthew 19 that marriage is between a man and a woman. In regards to the polygamist argument, God blesses ALL of us. We are all under God's blessing. Rick is once again playing the judge as Gene and Pat point out about Rick). The point of all of this is that when we choose to live our way (having sex even in a committed homosexual/lesbian relationship or a committed heterosexual relationship) WE choose to live outside of God's blessing because it is not in marriage as God intended between a man and woman. You clearly know this but are choosing to not hear. As the great theologian and philosopher Kierkegaard rightly points out: "The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be able to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any words in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world? Herein lies the real place of Christian scholarship. Christian scholarship is the Church's prodigious invention to defend itself against the Bible, to ensure that we can continue to be good Christians without the Bible coming to close. Oh, priceless scholarship, what would we do without you? Kierkegaard is speaking to the swindlers who are trying to twist scripture to their benefit. To justify any sex (committed or not) outside of marriage (homosexual or heterosexual) is an act of a scheming swindler. To justify marriage outside of God's intent between a man and woman is also an act of a scheming swindler. Your life is NOT ruined by remaining celibate!

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Nov 24, 2009
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You accuse me of being a Judge yet you judge us
by: Rick Brentlinger

Celibacy is not something YOU can impose on gays and lesbians. 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 makes it clear that celibacy is a gift from God and most people, gay or non-gay, do NOT have the gift of celibacy.

The Biblical principle, which you choose to ignore, is that its better to be faithfully partnered with someone matching your sexual orientation.

Such partnerships honor God, please God, are blessed by God and fulfill the stated intention, "to avoid fornication."

Its amusing that you read into Matthew 19, that Jesus is prohibiting every marriage that differs from the Adam and Eve paradigm when in verses 11 and 12, Jesus specifically exempts gay people (born eunuchs) from His statement about marriage.

My prayer for you is that other Christians will not treat you with the judgmentalism and lack of grace with which you treat your gay brothers and lesbian sisters.

Nov 27, 2009
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WAKE UP
by: Anonymous

You all are so blind and deceived by the Devil. can't you do your math here? God does not create people pervert but it a bondage from the devil, so you need to be set free.
I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

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Nov 27, 2009
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Submitted by: Anonymous

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You all are so blind and deceived by the Devil. can't you do your math here? God does not create people pervert but it a bondage from the devil, so you need to be set free. I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

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Nov 28, 2009
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Your comment is incoherent
by: Rick Brentlinger

I note you failed to present even one fact to support your anti-gay position.

Quoting a verse as if it means what you think it means is not thoughtful discussion. I'm just sayin...

Dec 09, 2009
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Speaking of Jude 5-7
by: Rick Brentlinger

To Wake Up:

Since you quoted Jude as if he supports your viewpoint, it might interest you to know that many conservative evangelical Christians agree that Jude is talking about a "sex with angels" problem instead of condemning the men of Sodom for homosexuality.

I quote from evangelicals, including Dr. John MacArthur, about what Jude meant.

Jan 24, 2010
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Grow UP!
by: Anonymous

I've often found it annoying that people insist that since marriage is a "religious institution" that it should be denied to homosexuals... yet I've never seen anyone out trying to deny marriage to atheists on that same principle.

Especially since, if it's a matter of civil law whether or not people can get married, it has become a civil institution in this nation, and civil law should never be used by religious people to deny civil rights to those who may not share their faith.

Freedom of religion is in the constitution, too! Just because you think it's wrong by your beliefs for two men or two women to marry does not give you the right to enforce that religious belief and therefor enforce civil inequality on a segment of the population who clearly do not share that religious belief.

Civil law should be entirely separate from religious belief for this very reason.

If two men or two women want to get married, let them. My god, maybe it will bring down the divorce statistics!

Mar 28, 2010
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The gift of homosexuality?
by: Matt

Let's look at the logic of this celibacy question, which is this: how do you know God has called you to a life of celibacy? The answer: You are attracted to the same sex. The gift of celibacy is attraction to the same sex, not a gift of lesser attraction or lesser sexual interest. Tongue in cheek here: the gift of celibacy is the gift of homosexuality :) How much sense does this make?

This makes for a strange God, one who would make someone homosexual (as this idea implies) and use it as that person's indicator they are to not have an intimate relationship.

If this is the indicator (as deduced by piecing together several different ideas and verses), then what to do with celibate heterosexuals? What basis do they have in being celibate? Maybe there's additional criteria...?

Please follow through with this idea. I'd be interested to see what matrix is formed for determining God's will for celibacy.

Apr 22, 2010
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James chapter 1
by: Terry

James chapter 1 verses 13 through 16 explain what gay sex is all about:
---Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
---But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed BY HIS OWN LUST.
---Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
---Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

---Sex that is had outside of God's boundaries is lust. As an example, a man cannot "lust" after his wife because he is within God's boundaries [for sexual relations]. Sex outside of God's boundaries is fueled by lust because one only thinks on his own sexual gratification.
---I Corinthians 7:2-3 tells us what sex is about...it is about giving of oneself to the OTHER person, even when we do not feel like it.

Jun 28, 2010
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Adison's Version of God's truth
by: Adison Showalter

Matthew 24:4-5 "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many."

Matthew 24: 23-25 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand.

I'm not here to say that anyone who has a homosexual orientation will go to hell. As a man that, about a year ago, had a homosexual orientation, I thrived to overcome the orientation. Through God's grace, the orientation has diminished to a mere speck in my heart. My heterosexual attractions have increased dramatically. :) It's an amazing feeling indeed.

From what Mr. Rick has presented, his argument seems to support, ironically, a hateful incentive, lashing out at heterosexuals. While you are correct about anti-gay clergymen having hate in their hearts, their are those that stand up for God's truth with an open mind and an open heart. These men and women CARE and LOVE homosexuals, but they know through the Holy Spirit that the action of homosexuality is wrong. I can see through your hating attitude towards heterosexual that your logic is obviously twisted.

Take note that there are heterosexual sins too. However, we must note God's idea of marriage; Genesis 2:24 states clearly how God intended marriage. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

You point out in one of your arguments that there is no clear indication of God against homosexual marriage; however, there is no clear indication for homosexual marriage as well.

As for Matthew 19: 11-12, it is clearly stated that Jesus is using the definition of a eunuch who is castrated. You mention one example of the usage of the word eunuch, and fail to mention the next two examples; men made eunuchs by other men, and a man who makes himself a eunuch in order to pursue the kingdom of heaven's sake.

This goes against your idea of homosexuality, that it is an orientation that you cannot change. In fact, if you read the entire story, you would know that Jesus is giving three examples as why to not get married, not condoning homosexuality.

I pray that you will open your heart and see what God has in store for you. I will keep you in my prayers. All of you. I pray that you understand that Leviticus 18:22 is meant to protect you, not to keep you in misery. And I pray that you know that you CAN overcome a homosexual orientation. I have! :)

God bless you, and much love to you,

Adison Showalter.

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Jun 28, 2010
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Submitted by: Adison Showalter

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Comment
Matthew 24:4-5 "Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many." Matthew 24: 23-25 "Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand. I'm not here to say that anyone who has a homosexual orientation will go to hell. As a man that, about a year ago, had a homosexual orientation, I thrived to overcome the orientation. Through God's grace, the orientation has diminished to a mere speck in my heart. My heterosexual attractions have increased dramatically. :) It's an amazing feeling indeed. From what Mr. Rick has presented, his argument seems to support, ironically, a hateful incentive, lashing out at heterosexuals. While you are correct about anti-gay clergymen having hate in their hearts, their are those that stand up for God's truth with an open mind and an open heart. These men and women CARE and LOVE homosexuals, but they know through the Holy Spirit that the action of homosexuality is wrong. I can see through your hating attitude towards heterosexual that your logic is obviously twisted. Take note that there are heterosexual sins too. However, we must note God's idea of marriage; Genesis 2:24 states clearly how God intended marriage. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." You point out in one of your arguments that there is no clear indication of God against homosexual marriage; however, there is no clear indication for homosexual marriage as well. As for Matthew 19: 11-12, it is clearly stated that Jesus is using the definition of a eunuch who is castrated. You mention one example of the usage of the word eunuch, and fail to mention the next two examples; men made eunuchs by other men, and a man who makes himself a eunuch in order to pursue the kingdom of heaven's sake. This goes against your idea of homosexuality, that it is an orientation that you cannot change. In fact, if you read the entire story, you would know that Jesus is giving three examples as why to not get married, not condoning homosexuality. I pray that you will open your heart and see what God has in store for you. I will keep you in my prayers. All of you. I pray that you understand that Leviticus 18:22 is meant to protect you, not to keep you in misery. And I pray that you know that you CAN overcome a homosexual orientation. I have! :) God bless you, and much love to you, Adison Showalter.

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Jun 29, 2010
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Adison, I feel sorry for you
by: Rick Brentlinger

Adison-

This is the second time you've accused us of hate with absolutely nothing to support your false accusation (your other false accusation of hate is your Comment on the Beastiality page).

The fact that you make such accusations indicates that you have nothing to support your belief system.

If truth supported your belief system, you wouldn't be reduced to making false accusations.

I pray that God will open your eyes to the damage your mean-spirited comments wreak on your gay brothers and lesbian sisters.

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Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians?

Rick Brentlinger Answers -

Isn't it all about sex for you heterosexuals?"

Comments for Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians?

Isn't it all about sex
for you heterosexuals?"

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Isn't it all about sex for you gays and lesbians?