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from Kevin
Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA

"Thanks for your continued defense of the faith. I for one am sick to death of the philosophy of men out there which is parading itself as Biblical doctrine.

Shockingly it is being dispensed by those who name the name of Jesus (Christians). I can’t know for sure if in fact they are children of God. However I can judge as to the truth of the gospel they preach. Galatians 1:8 “but even if we or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel then what we (Paul) preached to you, let him be accursed.”

The church, the body of Christ, in its ignorance is buying into false teaching without questioning or discernment. In Ephesians 4:14 believers are told to "be no more children tossed about by every wind of doctrine, by tricky men in cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting."

I don’t question Jay’s heart or intentions. But ignorance of the word of God can and will do as much damage as if his false doctrine was intentional.

Rick, you are totally correct in your assertion that sincerity is not a substitute for truth. The idea that sincerity is all that is required before the Lord now permeates the thinking of the church.

I find it scary that there seems to no longer be a standard. Without the Bible as our standard, isn’t every man doing what’s right in his own eyes? Aren’t they then becoming the definers of their faith?

Though you may feel alone at times in your defense of the faith, there are others like me, who stand at your side in the battle!! God Bless you Bro."

from Rick Brentlinger
Pace, FL, USA

"Fall To Grace is a primal scream liberal rant. If you love God and His truth in the Bible you will hate this book because it attacks so many foundational Bible doctrines.

Those who reject the Bible as God's truth may love Jay's book and thereby reveal much about yourselves.

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." -Psalm 119:160, KJV"

from God is Love
Somewhere, USA

"Aren't you being mean to Jay Bakker? Hey, aren't you being mean to Jay Bakker? Isn't he entitled to his own views about God and atonement?

I think we all get to choose what we believe. As long as we're trying to do right, its all good.

Instead of arguing we should show some love and get along. After all, isn't that what its all about?"

from Rick Brentlinger
Pace, FL, USA

"No, discerning between falsehood and truth and preaching truth is not being mean. And No, Jay doesn't get to invent his own view of the atonement and foist it on other Christians as if it is God's truth. A verse for you to ponder.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them." -Romans 16:17

When they preach their delusions instead of the Bible according to Jesus, Christians are told to:

1. Mark them
2. Watch out for them
3. Avoid them

Why? Because false teachers:

1. Cause divisions
2. Put obstacles in the way of truth
3. Upset people's faith
4. Cause dissensions and hindrances
5. Make others fall away from Christian faith
6. Lead others into sin
7. Defy the instruction of truth"

from Rick Brentlinger
Pace, FL, USA

"False teachers always attack the Bible in the same places their ancient ancestors attacked the Bible. Their false teaching is old, silly and has been refuted many times. Here's what Charles Spurgeon, the great London pastor, said about false teachers 125 years ago.
"Preachers of false doctrine dislike nothing more than the premature detection of their doings. Only give them time enough to prepare men's minds for the reception of their 'new views,' and they are confident of success.

They have had too much time already, and any who refuse to speak out now must be held to be partakers of their evil deeds.

These gentlemen desire to be let alone. They want no noise raised. Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness.""

from Beth
Tega Cay, South Carolina, USA

"Wow! I know Jamie Charles and I know his intention would never be to distort the Bible or preach false preachings. He's preaching a real life relationship with Jesus (even though I haven't read the book), I know his heart and I know his purpose.

If you really think about it, the guy that tried to "disgrace" Jay here only speaks from his "God-Ego." He sits there thinking he understands the Bible better than anyone else around and ONLY he knows how to interpret its meanings. It ain't that simple buddy! I am sorry but Jesus IS love. Jesus IS Grace. Jesus IS forgiveness, mercy and passion. Jesus understands the heart and troubles of those who are suffering, who might not yet understand the fullness of his life.

It doesn't mean they will burn in hell. It doesn't mean they aren't forgiven already. It means that Jesus has a heart of compassion and with compassion comes understanding. It means Jesus loves them and his heart aches for them to not hurt and to live a life embraced by his grace. There was nothing related to love and the truths of what the Bible IS all about that this "unknown person" wanted so to proclaim as he tries to throw Jamie under the bus.

I am so tired of "christians" like this thinking they can attack others who are at least reaching out in love to this world and not sitting in some big, fat judgment chair trying to speak for God. I believe, again I have not read this book, that Jamie Charles Bakker has felt the true passion of Christ and all he is trying to do is to put it into his words as best as he can, as best as he understands and has been shown in his life.

Get off of your soap box and thrown away your judgment seat. God is far more powerful than any man and so why not leave it up to God to speak of Jamie's intentions. Jamie's heart is of gold and his love for Jesus is very real. I love you Jamie. (Sorry I am calling you Jamie but it's the only name I've ever called you! Beth)"

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Jan 08, 2011
Don't be led astray
by: Marc Epstein

I believe we are in the 'Great falling away' period in the Bible. Christians are falling for numerous false teachings due to a lack of proper Bible teaching/preaching.

A few examples are: The distorted-Faith teaching that if you speak it, you get it (name it and claim it). True faith is based on love and humility. God knows what's best for us. We need to humbly seek the Lord and commune with Him in prayer desiring His will for us.

We are not our own. God is NOT a vending machine. About Jay's book, Fall To Grace." Scripture says to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment. We are to always ask the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into ALL truth. Yes, God loves us so very very much, but without discipline, there's anarchy.

Rick's review of Jay's book is insightful and fully truthful. We are supposed to be led of the Holy Spirit, NOT the flesh. The above book, in its lack of true Bible knowledge and wisdom, caters only to the flesh. We need to realize as true Bible believing Christians that ONLY the Bible has the final word in any situation in life.

Fall to Grace should rather be titled Fall from Grace. It is by exposing false teachings and teachers that God's love is TRULY manifested! Christians need to wake up and study to show themselves "approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word of Truth." 2 Timothy 2:15

Bravo! Rick for sharing your deep love for us fellow believers by correcting and warning those who are being led astray. We need to lovingly pray for Jay that the Holy Spirit will lead him out of error. All throughout the Bible, wise men welcome correction - even if it hurts!

My prayer is that Jay will come to himself, realize his errors and correct his book. Good Christian, pray for discernment, wisdom and understanding. Did you know that when you speak truth, you are worshiping God? Conversely, when you LIE or tell falsehoods (in books, too!), you honor satan. Tell me please, then who is honoring the Lord Almighty - Fall to Grace, or the Bible and Rick's review?

Jan 15, 2011
I don't have the guts to put my name on this Comment
by: Anonymous

Jay really hit into the hornets nest...... It only shows how insecure these so called real christians are and how scarred they become when somebody challenges their view....
The world would be a much better place if more people, like Jay, would treat people with respect. Less preaching and threatening would go a long way!

Jan 15, 2011
Why don't you care about truth?
by: Rick Brentlinger

It is painfully obvious that truth is not a priority in your life. If you loved God's truth you would not recommend or defend Jay's book, which trashes God's truth as it is revealed in the Bible.

It is not loving to lie to people and tell them they are saved when they are not.

It is not loving to lie to lost people and tell them God loves them unconditionally when He does not.

Regardless what Jay says, Hell is real. Jesus told us about hell in Luke 16. Are you going to believe Jay or are you going to believe Jesus?

The choice is yours.

Jan 31, 2011
by: Anonymous

I was a part of the Vineyard movement for 12 years and memorized scripture, went through deliverance, was accountable to elders and involved in intense counseling to repair my broken sexuality.......based on misinterpretation of scripture.

I CAN NOT believe that those who were so judged by misinterpretation of scripture are now splitting hairs regarding salvation. Do you really think an all loving, all knowing Father would create children only to set them up to be condemned for an eternity because they were raised in Iran, China, or on the American continent before the settlers appeared? I am sick to my stomach with branding others as heretics. Is this not what we hear from the middle east? Why not focus on Micah 6:8.

8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.

Who is right and going to heaven and who is wrong and going to hell? I attend a spirit filled Episcopal church now and have realized that at the end of the day it is how we honor God in each of us that is life changing. I trust the holy spirit to be working in all faiths leading us to the Father.

I love Jesus and he is the only reason I have the courage to face the challenges we all must face, yet I will not cram him down someone else's throat. I did not come to my salvation through was love that brought me to the Lord. Think about it, do you think the New Testament church would have had any traction if the authors did not say Jesus was the only way?

Yet I hope we can agree that Jesus may be the only way for me or for you, yet not for everyone for to many reasons to list! I can not and will not denegrade someone else because their position is not black and white and aligned with mine regarding salvation.

Feb 01, 2011
If the Bible is true, then Jay Bakker is dead wrong!
by: Rick Brentlinger

To Anonymous-

If the Bible is true, then Jay Bakker and you are dead wrong. Your kind of christianity ignores everything negative in the Bible. Your kind of christianity treats Jesus like He is a moron Who didn't tell the truth.

I hope you will stop deluding yourself that there are many ways to heaven. I hope you will embrace the truth as it is in Jesus and get right with God or get saved.

Whether you like it or not, you have made a choice. You have chosen to reject the many scriptures in my review of Jay's book in favor of believing your own delusions.

I hope you will come back to the Bible, read it with a believing heart and embrace its infallible truth.

Feb 09, 2011
Christians should NOT support false teachers
by: Rick Brentlinger

If you support false teachers, you become partakers of their sin. Supporting false teachers is sinfully wrong because it spreads error to other Christians.

"What hampered the Corinthians' open, loving response, which Paul called for? (v.13) Answer: rival suitors vied for their affections and allegiance. Though verses 14-15 are often applied to various sorts of alliances (e.g., mixed marriages, improper business associations), Paul's primary association was probably ecclesiastical.

The rival suitors were possibly pagan idolators (cf. 1 Cor.10:14) or more likely false apostles (cf. 2 Cor. 11:2-4). In censure or affection Paul was equally candid (cf. 6:11).

The solution to the dilemma was for the Corinthians to separate from the false apostles. Whatever may have been their own and others estimation of their spiritual status, Paul considered the false apostles to be unbelievers (cf.11:13-15) from whom the Corinthians needed to separate.

But Paul did not say that Christian should have no contacts whatever with unbelievers. Earlier he argued the absurdity of such a position (1 Cor. 5:9-10). But religious unbelievers might lead believers astray from "sincere and pure devotion to Christ" (2 Cor. 11:3), and that fact concerned Paul greatly."

John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary, 2 Vols., Colorado Springs: Cook Communications Ministries, 2000, p. 570.

Feb 17, 2011
To Paul R
by: Rick Brentlinger

While I understand that you disagree, I will not allow you to use our Comments feature to teach false doctrine about hell and salvation. I hope you will obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and "study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

A good place to start is our FREE Downloads page. May God bless and may your searching lead you to understand justification by faith, that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

Apr 09, 2011
by: Kay

I think your conclusions (about this book) are spot on!

Aug 18, 2011
Jay is on a subject needed in the church!
by: Tony Badami

I read the book "Fall To Grace" and I feel that Jay was on a certain subject that needs to be enforced in the Christian world. He, I believe, had one intention in mind and that is the Grace that God has for all people.

Surely the girl caught in the very act of adultery didn't come to Jesus first. She was taken there by religious people to condemn Jesus (not the girl). Jesus out smarted the mob and than the girl received forgiveness just from accusation of others. The grace of Jesus looking beyond her fault saw her need and gave it freely. Praise God.

I think that you are being too critical for your point of view on salvation and fixating on it instead of seeing the real subject matter. I believe that Jay knows how to get saved but was trying to show the readers of the great grace of God before and when they are saved.

By the way I really liked the book and rejoice that the Love of God is universal. When people notice the love of God to them through His Grace they will than repent and proclaim the Name of Jesus. Hallelujah.

Also, my brother, you should have gone to the offender and talked with him first before accusing him publicly. That's scriptural also. And if you did go to him first you should tell us that was your action.

I thank God for the bravery and vision that Jay Baker has for God and the ministry. Brothers this action should not ought to be.

Aug 19, 2011
Not the place
by: Anthony B

I first want to say that I love this site. I've come to it many times to find hope and to renew my mind on what God's WORD says instead of what people say. So thank you for that.

I read this book and it literally changed my life. I've always heard about grace but had never had it explained to such an extent. I loved that Jay used Paul's teachings for 85% of the content. It helped me get over my fear of reading Paul's teachings.

I loved this book so much that I had to read it again right after the first time. Now I'm studying Paul's letters.

I'm not sure where most of these negative comments are coming from, must be from another book. He used Paul's own teachings in FALL TO GRACE and his own life-changing experience with God.

My heart hurts that this site would be used to condemn a man who's heart is hurting daily for us. He spends half of his ministry if not more going to church's fighting on our(glbt) behalf.
Something to consider. God Bless you all!

Aug 19, 2011
To Tony and Anthony (perhaps the same person?)
by: Rick Brentlinger

Jay Bakker's Fall To Grace is deceptive and dangerous because it redefines grace to mean something grace never means in the Bible (that everyone is already saved without personally trusting Jesus Christ).

The grace Jay talks about is not Biblical grace. The grace Jay talks about is a smarmy New Age refusal to view ourselves as sinners in need of a Savior, a stubborn refusal judge sin, a sneak attack on the truth of God's coming judgment.

Remember, your choice is to believe what Jesus said about hell or believe what Jay says about hell. If you reject what Jesus said about hell (20 of the 23 times hell is mentioned in the New Testament, Jesus is the one who mentions it!!!) and believe what Jay said about hell, that is incredibly foolish.

I hope you will read my review of Jay's book more carefully. Jay's book is poison if people read and believe it. The false teaching in Jay's book will wreck your spiritual life and pull you away from the Jesus of the Bible. It will take you off-roading into a fantasyland of false teaching. Please don't let that happen to you.

Just so we're all on the same page, do you know for sure that when you die, you'll go to heaven?

In plainer words, do you know Jesus Christ as your Savior from sin, the one who paid for your sins when He died on the cross?

Here is how to get saved so you can know for sure.

Aug 19, 2011
Didn't see that at all
by: Anthony B

I am not the "same" person as the guy before me but I get what he's saying. I didn't get what you got out of the book but I guess that happens with a lot of books.

Grace is something that we get without deserving. Jesus gave us life when we deserved death.
John 3:18 - "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son.

How does someone who is a believer still believe that they will be JUDGED when Jesus himself was quoted telling Nicodemus that if we are believers then we will NOT be judged? -dare I say- because of the grace/gift we have been given.

People can and will argue about this for ages I'm sure but the fact of the matter is we are saved by grace and belief in Jesus Christ. This concept is why -I believe- Jesus says things like "my burden is light" "my yoke is easy."

Especially as a Christian Gay man,; this is what I get excited about when reading the WORD. I get enough condemnation from other "believers."

I personally don't care what Jay, TD Jakes, or Obama believes about hell. They do not buy my ticket to Heaven. I've never been to hell so I don't know what it would be like. Whether it is a physical place or a spiritual condition I don't want it. I choose Christ above all. God Bless ;)

Aug 20, 2011
I hope you'll read my review again
by: Rick Brentlinger

Anthony- I appreciate your input. My review of Jay's book is not a personal attack. I like Jay as a person. But in my review I tell the truth by quoting Jay Bakker and giving the page numbers so anyone can check out what he really believes.

It is always God's grace in operation when He saves us, as you've pointed out. But no one is automatically saved just by virtue of being born. Getting saved requires us to personally receive Jesus as our Savior from sin, John 1:11-12.

Jay's false view of grace is that when Jesus died on the cross, everyone is automatically saved, whether or not they trust Jesus Christ, whether or not they believe on Jesus Christ. That is false teaching but its what Jay believes.

Concerning judgment, all of us still face a future judgment.

Saved people will appear at the judgment seat of Christ, Romans 14:10, 12, to be judged for our works. The judgment seat of Christ determines our rewards, not our salvation, 1 Cor 3:13-15.

Lost people will appear before the Great White Throne of God to be judged, Revelation 20:11-15. At God's Great White Throne Judgment, the lost will be sentenced and the sentence carried out by God Himself as Judge of the Universe, Genesis 18:25.

As you pointed out at the end of your post, you chose to trust Christ. Anyone who has not trusted by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, is not saved and needs to get saved. Our job is to make that clear to them and lead them to trust Jesus Christ.

Sep 13, 2011
I guess we just read differently
by: Confused

I can understand how you could get some of that but Jay has a whole chapter called "RISEN MAN" in the book.(pages 109-119) All throughout this chapter Jay quotes verses about Jesus.
He says: "revolutionary truth of salvation TROUGH CHRIST."

He quotes Rom. 3:24,27-28 - "THROUGH CHRIST JESUS, who has freed us by taking away our sins"
"It is based on our FAITH(belief). We are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the Law"

And Again he says - "THROUGH CHRIST, God forgives us for all the sins we have committed."

So why do you think that he doesn't think that it is through Christ that we are saved? Anyone can be saved, they just have to believe. ANYONE!!! ;)

Sep 13, 2011
Jay disagrees with Jesus about getting saved
by: Rick Brentlinger

Dear Confused- Jay Bakker's Fall To Grace is deceptive and dangerous because in it, Jay and his co-author redefine grace to mean something grace never means in the Bible, that everyone is already saved even if they've never personally trusted Jesus Christ.

Jay Bakker disagrees with Jesus in John 3:18 and 36. According to Jesus, ANYONE who has not believed on Him is already under the wrath of God.

Jay teaches the opposite of what Jesus taught.

On page 51 of Fall To Grace: "Christ presents us with a game we can't lose. Everybody gets the prize just for showing up."

On page 152 Jay writes: "Because no man is innocent, no man is guilty. We're all saved."

On page 175 of Fall To Grace: Jesus "tells us of God's universal acceptance in every way He can think of."

On page 176 of Fall To Grace: "As we have seen, the point of Paul's ministry is that the religious law has been replaced by the law of Christ, the law of love: universal acceptance through grace."

Jay is a Universalist. He believes everyone is saved even if they have never trusted Jesus Christ.

Jesus says the opposite in John 3:18 and 36. Please take a moment to look up those verses and read them. Then you will need to decide, Do I believe Jesus or do I believe Jay Bakker?

Remember, your choice is to believe what Jesus said about hell or believe what Jay says about hell. If you reject what Jesus said about hell (20 of the 23 times hell is mentioned in the New Testament, Jesus is the originator of the reference to hell) and believe what Jay said about hell, that is incredibly foolish.

I hope you will reject Jay Bakker's false teaching and get saved via receiving Jesus Christ by grace alone through faith alone.

Jul 30, 2012
A bit confused.
by: Brandon

I just have a question for Rick.

I agree with you in that you need to trust in Jesus for salvation, and therefore nobody who lives his life and dies ACTIVELY REJECTING JESUS can be saved (as in they are taught about everything Christ did for us and choose not to believe it.) However, I saw a point made earlier that raised a good argument. It had to do with people in Iran, China, etc. that were not taught about Jesus being saved. I am not familiar with Jay's book, nor have I read much of the Bible, but this point raised a good question:

Rick, if someone lived and died in a place where either A.) They didn't know about Jesus (Pre-colonial America.) or B.) Heard Jesus mentioned but either the information was withheld or they were never taught about forgiveness by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, do you think they would still be saved?

Please quote Scriptures to back your answer.

Rick's comment: Hi Brandon, thanks for the good question. Jay's book does not scripturally answer the question you asked. Instead Jay invents his own plan of salvation and cites a few verses which do not in any way support his personal opinion.

I answer your question about people who have never heard on this page. Please be sure to visit the text links too since they provide a more in depth viewpoint.

Mar 20, 2013
the truth
by: real christian

god is love and understanding but it doesn't mean you can keep on sinning.but people in this country thinks it's ok to be gay.but it's not gods eyes homosexuality in a sin.but gays and lesbians need to repent and change what i mean change and i mean at least try to have the guts to turn straight.if some gay people are christian they at try prooving it and try to be straight.and i'm not judging ether only god can judge.gays don't know nothing about the holy bible.

Rick's comment: Wow, was it snowing when you typed that because you are a blizzard of ignorance or perhaps you're just drunk?

Sep 22, 2013
by: Todd

Why does the gay community feel the need to write all these books and have all these websites defending their lifestyle if it's ok with God?? Who cares what other people say about it it's God we awnser to in the end. Before you became a Christian how many websites did you get on to defend your lifestyle? Why would you do it now. The heterosexual community doesnt care we have our own sins we need to work on. God aint gonna be judging me because your gay. The reason Im on here is because I've seen Gods conviction on several gays and they with Gods help changed. How do you define fornication? Is it sex outside of marriage? Well if you are a Christian and gay and not married and having same sex intercourse?? But I'm sure you have an anwser for that as well. Who cares what your stupid anwser are?? Who cares what my stupid anwsers are. All that matters is what God says that is the Truth, the only Truth. Its not that hard to understand what God says about sin.

Rick's comment: Todd, this website answers questions like yours. Please read our Gay Christian FAQ for answers. Many thanks.

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