How can you be a Christian and live the homosexual lifestyle?

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How can you be a Christian and live the homosexual lifestyle?

by Jeannette
(U.S.A.)

Accusing someone of living the homosexual lifestyle is a snarky way of saying someone is living in sin when you really don't know how I live. Just for the record I am a God-fearing, holy-living, washed in the blood of the Lamb (John 1:29), born again, saved, eternally secure, Spirit filled, soul-winning, Bible believing Christian.

I get many emails like yours which take scripture out of context to support your false teaching or which quote the New Testament book of Jude and insist, without bothering to study, that Jude refers to homosexuality. I think you would be surprised to discover that many anti-gay conservative Bible scholars agree with gays that Jude was writing about a sex with angels problem.

Some people who write to us quote 1 Cor 6:9 from the NIV, which uses the word homosexual. Homosexual in that verse is a seriously deficient translation and has caused great harm to gay and lesbian Christians.

In the first century AD, there was no word in Hebrew or Greek which was the semantic equivalent of our English word, homosexual. Most of the people who quote 1 Cor 6:9 from the NIV:

have never studied the passage
have no idea which Greek words were used
have no idea what the Greek words mean
have not a clue about the cultural, historical and religious context in Corinth in the first century.

Those four facts make it impossible for them to correctly understand 1 Cor 6:9, as long as they refuse to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, which commands us to study and rightly divide the Bible.

Christians who have taken time to study 1 Cor 6:9 generally agree that it is not talking about gays and lesbians. In case you are a Christian who studies the Bible, here is truthful, historically accurate, scripturally sound, Christ-honoring information about this interesting text.

Malakoi in 1 Cor 6:9

Arsenokoitai in 1 Cor 6:9

Does 1 Cor 6:9 mean
I cannot be gay?

Does the Bible say
homosexuals will go to hell?

How do you answer the verse
that says homosexuals
will not go to heaven?

Jeanette also wrote: if God wished for homosexuality to exist, He would have made Adam and eve, as well as a gay couple and a lesbian couple.

Here is helpful information about that issue, which is known as complementarity. I hope you will not assume that you know it all. Instead, it will be to your benefit to keep reading and studying the Bible so I encourage you to do that.

Jeanette's Original Email:

"For starters, I'm someone who believes that the bible is the true word of God. With that being said, I don't support sin in any shape or form, including homosexuality.

The book of Jude speaks of "strange flesh" which you claim to be angels. Uh, angels don't have flesh. They are supernatural; unlike we humans, so your argument is not valid.

Also, read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. In fact, I'll post it:

9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

"which some of you were" is the key verse. Meaning they repented for their sin. Don't you know that those who belong to Christ have nailed their passions and desire to the cross and now live for him? By claiming to be a christian while living a homosexual lifestyle isn't living for Christ.

I always think of it this way: if God wished for homosexuality to exist, He would have made Adam and eve, as well as a gay couple and a lesbian couple."

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How can you be a Christian and live the homosexual lifestyle?

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May 23, 2011

I hope you repent
by: Jeannette

I hope you repent for what you're doing to yourself and others. Homosexuality is wrong and there's nothing you can say to change that.

May 23, 2011

No interest in the truth
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Netty- Thanks for letting me know you have no interest in the truth.

May 23, 2011

You are not a true Christian
by: Jeannette

Thanks for letting me know you're not a true follower of Christ.

May 24, 2011

homosexuality
by: Anonymous

Your justifying your sin and you are decieved by your immoral actions. The Old Testament says that If a man lies with another it is an abomination, same thing in 1 corinthias 6:9-11 actually it lumps homosexuality with thieves and drunkards and it says that if you continue to live this lifestyle that you will not inherit the Kingdom of God menaing these will go to hell.
I encourage you to go to www.needgod.com and examine your heart before the Lord. I read your stuff, i expect you to do that.
thank you for allowing me to respond.

May 24, 2011

Thank you Rick
by: Bob

I always find it interesting that people somehow find it ok to blast other Christians in a non-loving way. They want to be right which in my opinion equates to pride not love. Until they walk in the shoe's of a gay man or woman, they have no knowledge of how hurtful they are towards the cause of Christ.

God Bless you Rick and Thank you for what you do!

May 24, 2011

It helps to have a sense of humor
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Bob- Your comment is much appreciated. It helps to have a sense of humor when reading silly attacks from anti-gay folk. So earnest is their obsession with the GLBT community that they overlook the plague of illicit heterosexual sex among unmarried people in their own churches.

In a survey, 79% of unmarried conservative Christian Protestants admitted to having sex outside of marriage.

And time would fail me to tell of the porn plague in evangelical churches. Chuck Swindoll of conservative Dallas Theological Seminary says more than 50% of the men in evangelical churches are porn consumers.

No wonder they want to shift attention from themselves to us.

May 24, 2011

About walking in someone's shoes
by: Rick Brentlinger

You're right about walking in someone else's shoes. Here's my motto:

"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them,
you're a mile away AND, you have their shoes!"

Jun 05, 2011

Linguistic
by: Nick

The argument against homosexuality lies in the understanding of the word "arsenokoiten" in 1 Corinthians 6:9. In the other articles on this website, it seeks to show little of definition of the word by context. However, it looks only for the stem.

Assuredly, in the Septuagint, Leviticus 18:22 prohibits a man having sex with another man. This was also predominantly the translation used by the apostles. It says "arsenos ou koimethese koiten". Arsenokoiten is a compound word literally meaning "male-bed". Leviticus 18:22 employs the the words in a phrase, though not using the compound word. Linguistically, in the development of language, terms develop that shorten the explanation of ideas. Paul employs the words straight from Leviticus 18:22, however using it in a compound form. Most likely in a developed term. The definition of the compound term, in light of Levitcus 18:22, is clearly axiomatic. There is no doubt that this is what he refers to.

Now, to simply throw away Lev 18:22 because it is OT, would be a poor theological understanding of the way it is fulfilled in the NT. Simply, it is because the laws that are abolished have clear redefining in the NT (concerning cleansing, clean and unclean foods, ceremonies and festivals, temple sacrifice, High Priest, priesthood, Sabbath; ALL these things are specifically redefined in the NT. We only look at the OT through a different interpretive lens that the apostles give WARRANT to, as opposed to simply doing away with it.

My second point is more psychological. In the study of human behavior, the cause of homosexuality (in males) is a gender identity shame and a defensive attachment from that. It is greatly important that boys growing up to have deep emotional relationships with men, and within that to also understand their own identity as a man. If that God-given need goes unmet, puberty comes along and sexualizes it. Being a church in Hollywood, we minister to many men who struggle with homosexuality. The common denominator is that when you dig deep under the layers of behavior, you find a shame of being unworthy as a man, and not feeling like the other men. In therapy sessions, the same sex attraction is not even talked about. The same sex attraction is a defense mechanism against that shame. The deeper issues of gender shame are talked about. It has been amazing to see as men grieve through things that cause them to feel less than, a sexual attraction to men dwindles and an attraction to women grows. When men begin to discover and be settled in their masculinity, they begin to see the other gender as the "mysterious other gender". It has NOTHING to do with the same sex attraction, but all to do with gender shame.

Jun 06, 2011

Nick, apparently you don't read or study much
by: Rick Brentlinger

Your statements and accusations are untrue. If you took time to read the Links I cited in the opening post, you would see that I do define arsenokoitai and I do discuss it's meaning in relation to Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.

No one on this website throws away Leviticus 18:22. That you believe we do indicates you have not read with comprehension or you have not read at all.

Your psychological mumbo-jumbo linking gender identity shame to gay men is silly. Most gay men are not transsexuals. Gender identity is one's personal sense of being a male or female. Sexual orientation is one's sexual attraction to the same sex, the opposite sex or both sexes.

I deleted your second comment.

Jun 06, 2011

Response
by: Nick

--"Your statements and accusations are untrue. If you took time to read the Links I cited in the opening post, you would see that I do define arsenokoitai and I do discuss it's meaning in relation to Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13."--

Rick, I have followed what you had laid out in the explanation of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. If I am correct, it's in regards to temple prostitution, correct? That the use of the phraseology of "arsenos koiten" is an abomination in the context of temple prostitution? Correct me if that is not your viewpoint. I truly desire to know fully where you're coming from if I'm missing it. But if that is the viewpoint, I think that the hermeneutical principle employed for that viewpoint is flimsy at best. The commandment has a strict isolated meaning in the way it is communicated regardless of historical setting. It's for the same reason that many Jews today believe that God only gave instruction for temple sacrifice because people were ALREADY sacrificing animals in their paganism. It addresses their improper use of sacrifice, but regardless, the commandments were given for temple sacrifice. The commandments in Lev 18:22 and 20:13 are not in light of historical context. The verbiage would be different.

---"No one on this website throws away Leviticus 18:22. That you believe we do indicates you have not read with comprehension or you have not read at all."---

I was not assuming that of you guys. I merely brought it up to cover my bases on that aspect as it is common when speaking about the OT. We are clearly on the same page in our understanding.

Jun 06, 2011

Response
by: Nick

As far as the mumbo jumbo, the belief comes from many studies of understanding the nature of same sex attraction. A great book to at least understand what I'm coming from is a book by Joseph Nicolosi called "Shame and Attachment Loss".

I only spoke of it in men though. The attraction to the same sex in men in all studies have shown beneath the layers of it all is a shame to identify with their own gender. This happens early on developmentally. Puberty is what sexualizes the God-given emotion for male relationships. It's fulfilling a God-given desire in a corrupt way; which is the definition of all sin. Beside the reason, I've experienced these truths personally in seeing my same sex attraction develop early on, but then understanding how it left. As I began to see myself as equal with other men, not just in mind but in my heart, the attraction to men dwindled and and attraction to women grew. I'm thankful that in my case it's not a thought at all anymore. For other men, there is a stronger charge. But I've seen men in our church who struggle in their sexuality come out of it, or have made huge growth. In all of my friends, it has been not even addressing the same-sex attraction, but addressing the layers of gender identity shame. Just pick up the book, I would love to know what you think.

Jun 06, 2011

I encourage you to reread it
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Nick-

If you visit my shrine prostitutes page, you will see that Dr. Robert Gagnon, the leading anti-gay speaker and writer, devotes more than ten pages of his book to proving his thesis that Lev 18:22 and 20:13 were given in the context of shrine prostitution.

Pastor John MacArthur takes the same position and I quote both men on the shrine prostitutes page. Neither John MacArthur nor Robert Gagnon see the shrine prostitutes view as hermeneutically flimsy.

The NET Bible agrees that the context makes some kind of spiritual prostitution a viable possibility as does George Rawlinson, as does Dr. Elmer Martens, as does Philo, a Jewish philosopher contemporary with Jesus.

Believing that Lev 18:22 and 20:13 were given in the context of shrine prostitution is not an invention of gay people. It is the the historic position, articulated by Philo almost 2000 years ago. Philo undoubtedly got his viewpoint from even more ancient Jewish sources.

Jun 06, 2011

NARTH is not an honest source
by: Rick Brentlinger

I am aware that the source for your gender identity theory is Joseph Nicolosi, NARTH and the reparative therapy folks.

Reparative therapy is not a widely accepted treatment. Most mental health professionals do not regard homosexuality as an illness.

The main purveyor of Joseph Nicolosi's theory and practice is Exodus International and their affiliates. EI methods are claimed to work for about 15% of their clients but most of that 15%, including President Allen Chambers himself, admit they still struggle with same sex attraction.

A viewpoint which wrests scripture from it's context and harmful programs promoted by Exodus to produce exgays, which do not work for the vast majority of their clients, are not the answer.

Jun 06, 2011

How can you justify romans 1
by: Tim

If you believe the is the word of God you would then repent or you will receive your reward!! James tells us if we see a brother error from the truth He that restores him or helps him back to the truth has saved a soul - I wait for your reply

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 3And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Jun 07, 2011

I encourage you to study before drawing a conclusion
by: Rick Brentlinger

Romans 1 is a great chapter. If you are willing to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, study to show yourself approved unto God by interpreting scripture in context, you will discover that Romans 1:26-27 is about shrine prostitution, not homosexuality.

Further study will result in the discovery that without natural affection in Romans 1:31 does not have anything to do with homosexuality.

I wait for your reply.

Jun 07, 2011

reponse
by: Anonymous

bible has all authority over any man and you are so big on "Study to show yourself approved" which you should be how do you explain
(Leviticus 18:22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

(Leviticus 20:13)If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
God said to Adam and Noah: "Be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth". If Adam o Noah or their sons had adopted a life of total homosexuality, the human race would have come to the end. In the study of the Bible there is the principle of: "First Mention". For example, when in Genesis, the book of beginnings, something is mentioned, that meaning is intended for the whole Bible and this is valid also for homosexuality.
Let us see: But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. (Genesis 13:13). We are left without doubt on the motive of the notoriety of the city of Sodom, Sodom is the first mention of homosexuality in the Bible.

God revealed to Abram that He would have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for that reason: And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;(Genesis 18:20)

God sent two angels to save lot and his family from destruction. The angels would have spent the night in lot’s home, but during that very night the men of Sodom encircled the house: And
they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. (Genesis 19:5) It is clear that the Bible uses the expression "to know" regularly as meaning the sexual act between individuals, and again using the First Mention rule: And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, ……. (Genesis 4:1) And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: ….. (Genesis 4:17)

Similarly in the NT:(Matthew 1:24-25) 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. The modernists would say that the word "know" in this contest only means to know the person,personally, but it is the very context that refutes their position for Lot offered to the men his two virgin daughters:

(Genesis 19:8). Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. To note again: have not known man"
what does it means? The usual, here the meaning is having sex and that the girls were virgins, but the men were not interested in the women, even if virgins.… to know them as persons?
Certainly not! For they knew them already, living in the same city.

Jun 07, 2011

You're making yourself look ignorant
by: Rick Brentlinger

Check the NavBar under, What The Bible Says. There is no excuse for being ignorant when truth is available. All you have to do is read and study.

I have lots of information available free online. If you refuse to rightly divide the word, interpret the Bible in context, you are defying God and living in willful sin.

Will you continue in ignorance or will you study to shew yourself approved unto God? 2 Timothy 2:15. The choice is yours.

Jun 08, 2011

wow- We can twist scriptures
by: Tim

(Leviticus 20:13)If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

You can not say this means something else it means what it says the a man should not lie with a man -like he would with a woman- this is what Satan has done from the begining to twist the meaning of Scripture

let me break this down for you on a childs level so noone can misunderstand. now who will I believe the word of God or you
ASV: (American Standard Version, 1901) "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Darby: (J.N. Darby Translation,1890): "And if a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall certainly be put to death; their blood is upon them." ESV: (English Standard Version): "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." HNV: (Hebrew Names Version): "If a man lies with a male, as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." KJV: (King James Version): "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." LB: (Living Bible): "The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have brought it upon themselves." NASB: (New American Standard Bible): "'If {there is} a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. " Net Bible: "If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves." 1
NIV: (New International Version) "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
NKJV: (New King James Version) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."
NLT: (New Living Translation): "The penalty for homosexual acts is death to both parties. They have committed a detestable act, and are guilty of a capital offense." RSV: (Revised Standard Version): "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Jun 08, 2011

You always resist the Holy Ghost
by: Rick Brentlinger

Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Acts 7:51

As long as you try to make scripture mean something it never meant 3400 years ago when God gave it to Moses, you are fighting God.

As long as you refuse to obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and rightly divide the word, as long as you refuse to study the word in context, you will live in darkness.

Light rejected eventually becomes lightning.

Jun 14, 2011

TRUTH
by: PAUL

Hi all, we can not have excuses regarding homosexuality. Sin should be call be it proper name "sin" and i always consider homosexuality as abomination or a sin leading to death. Based on the truth and according to 1 cor.6:9...

I am not judgmental but quoting what the bible says. I pray the Jesus will bring us from darkness to light. May the Lord bless you all.

Jun 18, 2011

Basic Bible Study
by: Steven

You claim to be "rightly dividing the word", and anyone who opposes your fringe view is sinning against God... I think the burden of proof is on you to show that God was implying something He never mentioned in the text.

God was quite capable (more than you or I) of explaining what He meant. There is nothing in the scripture to imply that it was limited to a condemnation of Temple Prostitution. If you expect people had to take a course in ancient history BEFORE they can come to an accurate conclusion about what God meant, then the Scriptures are not the only thing you need to get to Heaven.

Secondly, fornication and sexual relations outside of marriage are forbidden by God. How do you expect people who are gay to marry, when again God demonstrated the two approved genders in holy matrimony?

You may claim to really understand those passages, but again the weight of the basic reading of the text is against you, as well as nature itself.

Jun 18, 2011

The burden of proof is on you
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Steven-

On this website, I have demonstrated the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words. I have demonstrated that vociferously anti-gay men like John MacArthur, Robert Gagnon and even the former Vice-President of Exodus International, agree with many of the historical views I've expressed on the website and I provided quotations from them to prove it.

The burden of proof is on you to prove that God was talking about loving, committed gay and lesbian relationships in the passages you use to attack your gay brothers and lesbian sisters. To assume that, when nothing in the historical record and nothing in the Biblical record supports your assumption, is nothing more than arrogance.

You are defending traditions of men instead of standing on scripture in context, rightly divided, 2 Timothy 2:15. I hope you will continue to study.

God has much truth to show you if you're willing to listen to the still small voice of the Holy Spirit, John 16:13, Acts 10:15.

Here is a good place to start.

Jul 08, 2011

Keep your pride in check
by: Anonymous

Jeannette, how dare you say someone is not a true Christian, only god knows a man's heart. The pride you have is sick. I would never say to someone there not a true Christian, because i am not god. In the church today we need to love the outcast and saying someone is not a "true" Christian is not the way to do it. You have the right to disagree, but you need to keep your pride in check

Jul 24, 2011

Homosexuality and the Bible
by: TR

I am a heterosexual Christian and lately I have been reading on what the Bible says about homosexuality. As we know, certain verses are commonly quoted...Genesis 19, 1 Cor 6:9, Rom 1: 18-28... I read on here and other sites about the meanings of certain original Greek terms in these passages and what they mean. Obviously, people interpret certain words differently. Most believe these verses mention homosexuality. Others believe they talk about temple idolatry, raping angels and so on... Since I don't know any Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic...I find I don't know what to believe. Who is translating/interpreting the verses correctly? I'm feeling a bit conflicted.

Jul 27, 2011

wow
by: dj litefeet (you tube)

My friend, you must acknowledge your sin. Just because you like it doesn't mean you have to justify it. I love women, however if I let my lust rule my Spirit then I would be going around and sleeping with the many females that I know. And I have slipped a time or two, only to turn away and say that it was wrong. Please repent because God wants you to.

Aug 04, 2011

Didn't you leave some passages out?
by: Anonymous

This is a little incomplete. What about Romans? What about Jesus defining marriage and starting with gender? What about him saying that sexual immorality makes you unclean to an audience that used the OT to define sexual immorality? How was he refering to incest, beastality and adultry but not homosexuality? I've looked at all this in detail, and while I would never think he'd condem someone for what they are tempted with (if so, I'm destined for hell!)we can't do things that go aganist his will and be close to the real God. We start setting up an idol to replace him so that we can live as we want. We can have the comfort without the holiness.

I have a feeling if we met I'd really like you, but you have the same problem I have. I want to turn God into something he isn't. I wish God were an egalitarian, but in order to make him so I have to twist scripture. It's ok that he isn't, though. He took who he is and limited himself far more than he has ever asked me to limit myself.

I really hope I meet you in heaven. I will give you a big hug.

Aug 15, 2011

Deceived
by: Anonymous

You guys are so deceived its incredible read romans 1 that is just many of the passages. my whole life i HAVE STRUGGLED with Bisexuality. I got saved and my desires changed...if i look upon anybody guy or girl in lust i repent and am seeking after a female mate for marriage. Until you are poor in spirit and not prideful you wont be saved. I dont justify my sin or blame god which is what you all do.

Sep 07, 2011

Praise Jesus
by: Will

Before I leave my comment, I want to praise and thank Jesus for letting me arrive at this website. My mission is spreading the gospel with LOVE! I would also like to say that I do not approach scripture with bias opinions. I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide me to the truth.

I do not condemn homosexuality any more (or less) than I condemn pornography (or any other multitude of sins). I will never tell a homosexual that he/she is going to hell, but I would say the same thing I would tell someone struggling with pornography, that is, if you don't repent of your sin and work out your salvation, you're headed down a destructive road.

Why do I view homosexuality as a sin? God delivered the wonderful gift of marriage (and Sex, just as importantly) to fulfill many duties, such as two beings becoming one flesh, physical pleasure, and others. One of the requirements of marriage and sex is to "be fruitful and multiply" (Ge 1:28 ESV), therefore childbirth is an important aspect of a sexual relation, something homosexuality can never achieve on its own, that is, outside of artificial insemination or something similar.

I do concede that there are numerous straight men and women that are infertile and thus unable to have children, but this is not the norm. The fact still remains, Men and Women are designed to create children, while two individuals of the same gender can never achieve this.

I pray for all people who read this, and I praise Jesus Christ as my King and Savior!

Sep 07, 2011

If you can't make a scriptural argument
by: Rick Brentlinger

Okay peeps, I'm kinda tired of christians who insist being homosexual is a sin when you haven't any Bible verse which in context, says that.

See, here's how it works. Something isn't a sin just because you think it is. Outside your own family, hardly anyone on earth cares what you think anyway.

What we do care about is God's infallible truth. We place the truth of God as revealed in the scriptures of truth above your opinions. And anyhoodles poodles, worrying about everyone's opinion is so junior high and frankly, we're over it.

So please, when you present an argument, present it with logic and supporting facts, not opinion. Your goofy, it means what I think it means even though I have never studied it argument: well, that kind of illogic won't convince anyone with more than two working brain cells.

Sep 12, 2011

Sola Scriptura
by: Will

Sola Scriptura, my friend. I let scripture alone dictate my views. No outside, biased opinions. And in fact, I was raised in a very tolerant household, so I like to think I have no outwardly discriminatory traits, but rather a very open minded view of all things. I love ALL people. Anyway...

I would like to point out that there are plenty of "opinions" that don't have specific biblical quotes, the most prominent one being the Holy Trinity. Nowhere in the bible are God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit referred to as three in one, yet theologians have concluded they are one in the same (The Apostle's Creed). Most of us believe this to be true.

I do hope your "opinion" comment wasn't pointed at me, though. I cited Genesis in my post, that is, actual scripture. I would have posted other verses but I've already read the ongoing debate over those verses, and about what they actually mean and what the culture was like back then, etc. Everything seems to be going in circles, so I thought I'd bring a different view, but I see the error in doing so now.

Anyway, I do not consider myself to be a "biblical scholar" by any means. I put my trust in other well accredited scholars. Maybe a vast majority of them are wrong and homosexuality isn't a sin (heck, maybe bestiality is okay, too).

In any case, my whole aim here is love. I do not wish to condemn any people or attempt to make them feel guilty. My aim is to spread the Love of Jesus! If I am wrong about this whole thing, I pray the Holy Spirit will fill me and that God will soften my heart so that I will discover the truth. That's all I really want: The truth! Praise Jesus!

Sep 12, 2011

RE: If you can't make a scriptural argument
by: Tim

Rick, I want to be sure that everyone knows that we all fall short and the only way to the Father is by the son Jesus Christ -so we all sin and need Jesus. The most basic definition of sin is in 1 John:3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Here God defines a boundary for mankind. He says that sin is transgressing His holy, spiritual law (Romans:7:12-14). Breaking that law, crossing that divine boundary, that limit God set for us is sin. This will be my last time posting...

Sep 13, 2011

If ignorance is bliss, you anti-gay folks are a blizzard!
by: Rick Brentlinger

No one has presented a coherent argument to support your position.

No one has answered anything I wrote in my answer to Jeanette.

In the real world, your opinion only counts when it is backed up by objective cultural doctrinal historical facts. Without facts, you have no argument.

Okay class, can anyone quote 2 Timothy 2:15 from memory? Anyone, anyone? Bueller?

Sep 14, 2011

Missing the point
by: A Friend

Rick, I appreciate your heart. There is something that is disconcerting about this whole thread of posts above. It appears that you have will not even consider the fact that you are wrong.

Here we are, arguing about words, and meaning of words, rather than allowing the Word to challenge us.

And now, I'm guessing you're ready to attack me (and I sincerely hope I'm wrong). Calling me 'anti-gay', saying I have no scriptural evidence, and yet I haven't even presented an argument. I haven't even tipped my hat as to where I stand on the whole debate, and that really is my point.

Perhaps you're being guided by your desires and wants, that puts you in a defensive mode, rather than a learning mode.

Maybe, just maybe you're wrong. Maybe, just maybe you're right. I'd just encourage you to consider the possibility that you are wrong - many of us have considered that you may be right.

Sep 14, 2011

I have examined the evidence for 30 years
by: Rick Brentlinger

I appreciate your comment yet find it troubling. If I was a new Christian with no experience and without more than 30 years of studying the gay and Christian issue, then you might have a point.

Yet I have studied this issue for more than 30 years. I have read the anti-gay literature from Exodus and our other detractors. I answer their arguments on this website and in my book, point by point, using scripture in its proper cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic, literary and religious context.

The anti-gay crowd is adept at ripping verses out of context, then insisting the verses mean something they did not mean in context. They use that tactic to keep people enslaved to the law when scripture tells us, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, Galatians 3:13.

The Bible commands us to: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

I used to agree with our detractors. Far from refusing to consider that I might be wrong, I changed my mind, abandoned their position and became pro-gay after studying the issue in depth. I obey 2 Timothy 2:15 and encourage everyone to obey that wonderful verse.

The Word can only challenge us concerning Biblical truth when we understand the meaning and context of words. Jesus is the incarnate Word and our Bible is the written word. They compliment but never contradict each other.

Sep 14, 2011

This may be helpful
by: Rick Brentlinger

This page may be helpful to those of you who feel I have not considered the possibility that I might be wrong. Isn't it true that God hates fags?

Let's learn to deal with cold hard Biblical facts, in context. Some day when we stand before God at the judgment seat of Christ, God will judge us based on how we handled His infallible words, whether we believed them, whether we preached them in context, whether we were to lazy to study, whether we preferred to spend more time watching TV than reading our Bible and then obeying what we read there.

My personal life is not what some insultingly refer to as the gay lifestyle. I witness every week, passing out tracts and obeying the Great Commission. I recently returned from two weeks doing street ministry in the Castro district of San Francisco.

I pray and counsel with people around the world via email and phone. I read, study and teach God's word in context.

God blesses me with a fruitful ministry as we see souls saved and Christians growing in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

May God abundantly bless you as you walk the path of His purpose for your life.

Your brother in Christ,

Rick Brentlinger

Oct 07, 2011

Feel like there are no easy answers
by: Andy

As a struggling gay Christian myself, I tend to believe Rick's evaluations especially after looking at things for myself. But I'm also of a mind that people needn't be biblical scholars to understand God's truth. Wasn't the Bible written for everyone to understand? But then, what about all the seeming contradictions in the Bible and the issue of interpretation?

It's not easy translating a complex book written by many different authors over many, many years, all coming from different cultures and viewpoints, written in a couple different languages and even different dialects of that language, many of which are no longer spoken by current people, and many words in which no one can agree on a certain definition.

I appreciate what Rick and people like him are doing. I also appreciate people who strongly believe differently and try to back themselves up. But at some point I can't help feeling that there just aren't any easy, made-to-order answers. Like some other website said I saw the other day, the Bible is a book about God, his relationship to us and how we can have an authentic relationship with him and eventually join him after death. It's not a step-by-step self-help book about human sexuality, politics, or science. It does not cover every single problem or dilemma that humans face every day in every age.

As for me, yes the issue does eat at me, but at some level I just have to say, Ya know, it's in God's hands. I am fallen, and I cannot fully understand His divine mysteries. All I can do is follow the Greatest Commandment he ever gave anyone: love the lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

I believe I'm going to Heaven and that God loves me. He may not love the fact that I am homosexual but he ALSO doesn't love the fact that everyone else are alcoholics, rapists, murderers, usurers, liars, and give into gluttony, pride, avarice, cruelty, and judge each other unfairly.

But, he loves THEM. That's the point to me. At some point, I just want to say, let's all stop arguing and just agree that God loves everyone but does not love their sin (and EVERYONE sins. EVERYONE. You can't escape it) and that if we believe in Him and His Son and what They did and continue to do for us, we will have everlasting life and joy and peace. That's what I believe.

Oct 07, 2011

Being gay is NOT like being a rapist or murderer
by: Rick Brentlinger

Hi Andy- Thanks for your comments. Just a note to help you refine your argument. Being gay is NOT like being a rapist or a murderer.

When you make that argument, you're buying into the hateful mean-spirited anti-gay arguments which have damaged so many GLBTs.

Loving someone God created us to love is NOT analogous to rape and murder. Don't ever let anyone use that wicked illogic on you and please don't ever use it again yourself.

There is no reason for you or any GLBT to give any credence to the hateful rhetoric of folks who despise us. I answer their creepy illogic on my beastiality page which I hope you will read.

Nov 05, 2011

I'm not even a Christian but...
by: chasincars

...this site is so awesome :) It's helped a helluva lot with research and stuff, specially that page on cult prostitutes. Much love to the LGBT community and Rick or whoever runs this site :D You rock!

Nov 10, 2011

What does it really mean?
by: Anonymous

I've noticed any opposition to your ideas in the comments you have been pinning this opposition not on their belief of what they think the word says, but on other underlying reasons such as insecurities like addiction to porn. Also you state that the translations of the bible are inaccurate but you don't go into what the greek translation actually means.

From the perspective of the English translations of the Bible it's quite blatant that a man lying with another man is a sin, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that the translations are wrong about homosexuality. So what do you think the original scriptures are actually saying in the verses mentioned?

Nov 10, 2011

Please take time to read the clickable Links
by: Rick Brentlinger

Your statement indicates you have not read with comprehension since I do not make the arguments you think I make. Your questions are already answered in the pages I link to. Please reread the post AND the clickable Links in the post and in my answers to folks who commented. Many thanks!

Nov 17, 2011

I haven't gone through your entire site
by: Anonymous

I am not here to condemn you nor judge you. All I can say is this. Leviticus 18:22 says Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. I do not think there is much room for interpretation there. You may say that is OT BUT 1 Peter 1:25 says but the word of the Lord stands forever.

You may still say I do not have relations with men. I haven't gone through your entire site. Jesus said But I tell you anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The same goes for men to men. I can all but assume, this passage is about lust not which sex you are lusting after.

Therefore I can only conclude that if you are a homosexual, are openly homosexual, a non-repentant homosexual, or even a married homosexual. You are sinning and outside of Gods will.

If you want further evidence I encourage you to look these up in the lexicon of the blue letter bible which gives you the original Greek text as well as translated words.

Nov 17, 2011

Better to read than to assume
by: Rick Brentlinger

Perhaps the most difficult thing I deal with each week is the arrogance of anti-gay Christians. People who have not bothered to acquaint themselves with the Biblical facts still assume the Bible agrees with their uninformed view.

In the unlikely event that you some day become interested in Biblical truth to replace your unstudied hidebound religious dogmatism, please expand your horizons by reading through this website.

May the blessed Holy Spirit illumine your understanding of the scriptures of truth.

Nov 25, 2011

wow
by: Anonymous

your really have no idea what youre talking about do you? wow i dont know how people continue to praise what you do....

Dec 02, 2011

Kudos
by: Dustin Stewart

I am Catholic, I am Gay, and I am thankful that you have taken the time to post the truth on homosexuality. It is unfortunate how ignorant our culture has become about homosexuality and its place in the Bible. I appreciate your Bible based evidence. The Church currently is undergoing a struggle with this and I ask for your prayers. I am thankful that in the Catholic Church on a debate of this magnitude Church law provides that we come to our own conscience with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I'm weary of the ignorance, and also weary of the fearful stabbing mindsets of the ignorant (much to do with their fear that they will be held responsible if they don't admonish those they judge to be sinful on the basis of culturally biased & highly westernized biblical interpretation. God Bless Pax Christi

Dec 02, 2011

God is love.
by: Louise

I'm a struggling bisexual and just getting into your website, so I don't have an opinion on anything yet, except that I've been ashamed of myself since I first got a crush on a girl at age 12.

If you are going to counter a point or share advice, here are some loving ways to do that:

1. Abandon sarcasm.
2. Abandon cruelty.
3. Abandon preconceptions.

4. Consider that you might be wrong.
5. Consider that you might need to do more study.
6. Consider Matthew 7:1.

7. Think about how Jesus treated people.
8. Think about why Jesus came to this planet.
9. Think about Luke 10:27.

A.C.T. seems like an effective set of questions to ask yourself before going off on a rampage.

God bless!

Mar 07, 2012

The cult of Rick Brentlinger?
by: Smartypants

Thank God a teacher like Rick Brentlinger
has finally come into our midst! After thousands of years, humanity FINALLY has the truth! Rick, you are just a fundamentalist of a different sort. You have made your narrow understanding of what you believe to be "truth" to be THE truth, and anyone who disagrees must obviously be unstudied, ignorant, or unwilling to accept it. After all, your interpretation is "what the Bible says" and if only people would open their pea-sized minds and "study it for themselves" they would come to the same conclusions you have.

Thank you Rick for exposing how everyone is wrong but you (and those who agree with you). Well, at least about homosexuality. Apparently, these same ignorant evangelical Christians have managed to come to the truth about everything else (your teachings on this website seem to be in keeping with historic evangelical Christianity otherwise).

If those who disagree with you are too ignorant to get this one issue right, how did they manage to get the rest of it right? (Again - thank God we now have you to come and correct thousands of years of false teaching).

It is only logical to conclude that your break with evangelical Christianity on this one issue is the result of eisogesis, not serious acedemic exogesis. (How else could you seemingly apply a consistent hermaneutic and come to such an opposing and polemic conclusion?) It is also logical to view your accusations of those with an opposing view as having failed to properly study as psychological projection on your part.

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