Are gay rights analogous to beastiality rights?

by Susan




This is a common question often asked by people not accustomed to rational thought. Even a modest amount of clear thinking will demonstrate the logic of your analogy to be completely off the mark.

Because you make the analogy that having sex with animals is equivalent to homosexuality, you must have a thoughtful basis for your analogy. Here is the logic which MUST underpin your analogy for it to be true.

  1. You must argue that beastiality - having sex with animals, is a legitimate, immutable and innate form of sexual expression. I am quite certain you would never make such ridiculous assertions.

  2. You must argue that beastiality - having sex with animals, is a form of sexual expression God will bless because He designed humans and animals to accommodate that possibility. I am quite certain you are unwilling to assert that as truth.

  3. You must argue that beastiality - having sex with animals, is recognized by the medical, religious and social sciences communities as a legitimate sexual orientation. I am quite certain you know better than to make such a ridiculous assertion since there are only two recognized sexual orientations, heterosexuality and homosexuality. Beastiality is a paraphilia, not a sexual orientation.
    "Paraphilia: One of several complex psychiatric disorders that are manifested as deviant sexual behavior. For example, in men the most common forms are pedophilia (sexual behavior or attraction toward children) and exhibitionism (exposing one's body in public setting). Other paraphilias include compulsive sexual behavior (nymphomania and priapism), sadism, masochism, fetishism, beastiality, and necrophilia."

  4. You must argue that beastiality - having sex with animals, deserves equal treatment under the law in spite of the fact that animals are incapable of informed legal consent. I am quite certain you are too honest to make such a ridiculous assertion.

  5. You must argue that God and Moses intended in Leviticus 18, to analogize homosexuality with beastiality, a tin-foil hat belief that is not supported by any rational analysis of the cultural, doctrinal, historical, linguistic or religious context of Leviticus 18.

    I hope you are honest enough to admit that there is no historical evidence of any kind which suggests that loving, committed same sex relationships were a problem in ancient Israel which God and Moses felt it necessary to address in Leviticus 18.

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    Susan's Original Question:

    "You say on your site, and rightfully so, that beastiality is wrong. But what if a person were to contact you pleading that they love animals for sex, have tried so hard to not do that, have tried to date both men and women and it makes them feel sick, that they have felt attracted to animals from the time they were a child, gone to counseling, mental hospitals, that they have prayed for deliverance from this but nothing works, etc etc and after tearfully pleading with you, what would you tell them? According to your site, I would guess you would tell them that their lifestyle is a sin, show them scripture, tell them Jesus will heal them, and send them on their way. Is this not the same scenario that before these sites, was experienced by gays and lesbians? Will these types of people who want bestiality have no recourse but to petition congress for laws that allow marriage to animals, march in the streets for the right to be recognized as normal and accepted for what they are?"

Comments for Are gay rights analogous to beastiality rights?

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Jan 12, 2011
I disagree
by: Anonymous

I was reading your article on the beastiality argument and I am in total disagreement. I don't think homosexuality is a choice HOWEVER, I don't think people were born that way either.

I do think people twist the bible to make it seem ok. I'd ask where in the bible does it specifically say its alright? Also I do believe its a steep slope to other sins, it doesn't necessarily say that other sins are ok by allowing it because a sins a sin and none are greater than any other...

Beastiality is already beginning, give it time and it will reach the U.S and guess whose agenda they are going to use for their "equality?"

May 20, 2011
Beastiality and homosexuality are both imperfect
by: Anonymous

You're looking at everything from a purely right or wrong perspective. It's not really any of our business what people do (as long as it's not rape) but our social response to homosexuality, people who have sex with close family members, animals, or whatever, should be disgust.

And that is the deterrent from people doing such things. People like to pretend that being gay or straight is some clear line drawn in the sand and you're either attracted to same sex people or you aren't, but in reality lust is a lot more complex than that, and I can guarantee if you spent 20 years on a desert island with someone of the same sex you probably would end up having sex regardless of your attraction to one another.

Jul 13, 2011
Consent?
by: Anonymous

The article mentions that animals don't (can't) give legal consent to sex.

What legal consent do they give to being killed and eaten?

May 28, 2013
Standing up for what you think and believe.
by: Kevin S.

TO ALL THE ANONYMOUS,

If you really believed all your comments on GayChristian101, why do you stay anonymous? If they are truly your convictions; stop hiding behind anonymity. I think it is just a bunch of nobodies who get ignored by everyone and they need to spout off so they feel important. Or, maybe your thinking you might be gay and you need to argue out your objections so you can get to the truth. Just possibly your just an angry homophobic religious person who seeks to lash out at gay people on a gay site. Whatever the case may be; how about a name with that opinion.

Apr 11, 2014
What makes sodomy any less a perversion than beastiality?
by: John Freeman

But what makes sodomy any less a perversion than bestiality? Only because it has become relatively acceptable in our decadent, modern society. It was extremely rare and punishable by death in colonial America. But because sodomy is okay now does not make it any less immoral or perverted than it was two centuries ago. The truth didn't change, society did.

Nature itself teaches the truth here. When a heterosexuals marry and have intercourse, the result is a beautiful baby. When two males have sex...

Perversions of every stripe are seen in our world. God's words explains this so that none need err. "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." The Word of God is the only thing in our world that we can trust in.

Rick's comment: Hi John - Anal sex was invented by heterosexuals as a primitive method of birth control. About 66% of gay male couples engage in it and about 33% do not. About 25% of hetero couples have tried it and about 11% do it frequently.

The real issue is that the anti-gay crowd likes to rip verses out of context so that they can compare loving gay relationships to having sex with animals. They also like to portray gay love as only about sex while portraying hetero love as being about emotional commitment and reproduction and apple pie and flags waving. In other words, you are employing a culture war tactic. Your endgame is to vilify gays, not to win us to saving faith in Jesus Christ. One of the ways you do that is by ignoring the article, simply using it as a springboard to make your anti-gay point.

Jun 08, 2016
Bestiality
by: Alex

Hi, I'm the polygamy boy. I want to comment in this article.

You know what flaw I can find in it? You are debating against straw man. The "anti-gay" analogy teaches homosexuality is close to bestiality in the sense that both are equally a distortion of God's design.

Rick's comment: Hi Alex - You have not addressed any point I made in the article, which must indicate you have no answer. No, I have not set up a straw man argument.

And, to excuse yourself, you try to "adapt" the Bible to modern-day customs and adaptations: "no, gays aren't like zoophiles because bestiality is gross, unlike homosexuality which is widely accepted today". May things are widely accepted today, but that does not mean they are morally right. But this depends on the place that you live in.

In your country, USA, homosexuality is completely legal, while in Palestine Islam is widely accepted. Does that mean Islam is God's revelation to mankind? No, agreed. But in Palestine I'm sure you can find a Muslim who believes homosexuality is as reprobable as bestiality.

Rick's comment: Interesting. You accuse me of arguing with a straw man and then build your own straw man of widely accepted, an argument I do not make in this article.

Second, you claim Leviticus 18:22 is referring to Shrine prostitution. But why does not the text say such a thing? The verse simply says "don't sleep with guys as you'd do with girls, that's gross". It doesn't say "don't sleep with people in Molech's temples". Also, shrine prostitution was practiced by BOTH men and women, so why does this verse only refer to men?

Rick's comment: Even the most anti-gay conservative Bible scholars agree that the context of Lev 18:22 and 20:13 IS shrine prostitution.

Why can't we find a verse restricting sexual relations with women WITHIN Leviticus 18:22? As I said, it never says homosexuality is only forbidden in Molech's temples. Never. The context is forbidding sexual relations: don't screw with animals, nor sisters, nor daughters, nor MEN. You shall not sleep with guys in the manner you should sleep with a woman. It is crystal clear to me. Why isn't it to you too? God bless you.

Rick's comment: The answer is found on my shrine prostitutes page, linked to above. Briefly, God mentions Molech in Lev 18:21 and 20: 2, 3, 4, 5.

Please don't make the mistake of thinking Moses and God are prohibiting homosexuality when the context indicates they are prohibiting pagan sexual worship of Molech.

Jun 09, 2016
What it says in English - what it means In context
by: Kevin S.

QUOTING ALEX: "Second, you claim Leviticus 18:22 is referring to Shrine prostitution. But why does not the text say such a thing? The verse simply says "don't sleep with guys as you'd do with girls, that's gross". It doesn't say "don't sleep with people in Molech's temples". Also, shrine prostitution was practiced by BOTH men and women, so why does this verse only refer to men?"

Your comments express the general ignorance and unlearned condition of those who handle the Scriptures (the Bible) in a careless, disrespectful and uninformed manner, even thought it may not be with intent.

Studying and interpreting the Scriptures is like any science or skill. To properly do so, one must understand the culture, historical place setting, and the nuances of the original language (Hebrew) in which it was penned.

The OT Scriptures you refer to occurred thousands of years ago, in a different time, place, and culture. To understand the "MEANING" of those text, one must understand the what, when, where, why, and more importantly WHO of the words spoken.

TO QUOTE RICK: "It can't mean today what it didn't mean when it was written."

Let me present some basic exegetical questions (the method of interpreting Scripture), and answer them based on the context of these words.

1. WHAT was the problem being addressed?

The Children of Israel had just left Egypt after 400 years of slavery where the had lived in a culture of idol worship for many generations. Their everyday living had been corrupted by idol worship. The proof of this; when Moses came down from the mount after receiving the Ten Commandments, he found Israel had fashioned a golden calf and were worshiping and sacrificing to it.

2. WHEN did this occur, the events preceding these words?

Right after the EXODUS from Egypt.

3. WHERE did this event happen?

During the wilderness journey.

4. WHY did God give these 613 Holiness Code laws to his people?

They were headed for Caanan, the Promised Land where idol worship was rampant. This was a preemptive strike on the corruption they would find when they arrived.

5. WHO were the recipients of these words?

In the book of Leviticus it say 27 times that these words were for THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.

"I write these things unto the CHILDREN of ISRAEL."

These instructions were for Israel not the Church, NOT Christians.

A brief reading, of these texts without a substantial understanding of their complex cultural, historical and linguistic foundation is the equivalent of working under the hood of your car without any mechanical experience or understanding of how an automobile is constructed or how it works.

It is foolishness to to use our modern day, twenty first century, westernized, Christianized understanding of the Old Testament and the peoples of 4000 years ago, to attempt to understand and interpret these words.

That kind of careless casual handling of the Scriptures is why so much apostasy exists in Christianity today, most propagated by spiritual leaders.

It's wisdom to speak with knowledge and foolishness to speak without knowledge. I believe you mean well. However, a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing, a lack of knowledge is disastrous.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - ll Timothy 2:15

Jun 10, 2016
Response
by: Alex

If you argue that Leviticus 18:22 is referring to temple prostitution, what stops me from arguing that the verses about bestiality refer to shrine prostitution as well and as thus I can sleep with a horse? After all, the verses are one after other and were written under the same context. God bless.

Rick's comment: Hi Alex - You're making a version of this false argument:

If homosexuality is okay as long as it's not part of idol worship, then incest and beastiality must also be okay, as long as they are not part of idol worship.

I answer that argument by reminding everyone who uses it of four important facts.

1. The biblical truth is, Moses never mentions homosexuals or homosexuality or lesbians and lesbianism. You assume that he did, based on your misunderstanding of Lev 18:22 and 20:13.

2. You are making a specious argument - superficially plausible but fundamentally wrong on the facts.

Moses analogizes shrine prostitution with incest and beastiality. At no time does Moses analogize homosexuality with incest or beastiality.

3. Even the most anti-gay conservative Bible scholars agree that the context of Lev 18:22 and 20:13 IS shrine prostitution.

4. Ancient Jews understood Moses to be condemning shrine prostitution in Lev 18:22 and 20:13. That was mainstream Jewish belief in Old Testament times and in the first century during the life of Christ. See my arsenokoites page for more information on that.

Jun 10, 2016
Response
by: Alex

1. Homosexual is "he who has sex with members of his own sex". That is, in black and white, what Lev. 18:22 is saying...

Rick's comment: Hi Alex - I've offered you honest answers to your questions. You have generally ignored the answers, ignored the historical proof which I offered and instead, insulted me and then said you were not attacking me, you were attacking my theology.

I won't waste any more time on this.


Jun 11, 2016
"Iron headed and stiff-necked"
by: Kevin S.

Oh Alex, it's obvious you care nothing about facts or you're just unable to comprehend the process of intellectual thinking. I can only quote two sayings.

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

"It is best to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

As Rick has expressed, intelligent, factual answers were offered to you and rather than address those facts you responded as if they were never offered. You comments are peppered with oppinion but lack substantial foundational FACTS.

I can understand if you lack the knowledge to speak on these matters but I can't understand your arrogance in that ignorance. So any further time expended is futile until you come to a place where you can consider offered facts and debate them in an honest, intelligent way.

Jun 13, 2016
Response
by: Alex

I'd like to apologize. I didn't mean to offend you. God bless.

Jun 15, 2016
Appreciated
by: Kevin S.

Alex, I love debate and discussion because I was raised to believe it is the methodology by which we can all come to truth. I hold to the truth that debate determines WHAT IS RIGHT, while argument determines WHO IS RIGHT.

Better we should seek the WHAT! So let us continue to debate, without offense or accusation, having kind hearts and open minds wherein is the real treasure of debate. The heart of faith is to be enlightened each day as to who God is and why we are here.

Your apology says much about the man you are and I appreciate that.

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